What Is The Revelation 12 Sign In 2017 Telling Us?

If you read my earlier post on the Revelation 12 sign you understand that the astronomical alignment which occurs for the first and only time in all of history will take place in September of 2017. For the following to be understood one must hold to the belief that there are no accidents in God’s sovereign order. That He created the heavens for His glory, “The heavens declare the glory of God, and the sky above proclaims his handiwork” (Psalm 19:1).

As is often the case in dealing with signs, particularly ones that fall on a specific date, many make the mistake of drawing dogmatic conclusions. A sign by definition is an indicator of something to come yet future and not the event to which it points. As for Revelation 12, the text points to the rapture of the church and Satan’s pursuit of Israel after being cast out of heaven. Again, a sign means this is coming yet future and not on the day of September 23. Many who recognize the significance of this sign have painted themselves into a corner. In some circles if you do not believe the rapture takes place on this day you might as well be apostate. In light of this position many who dismiss the sign outright as nothing important do so on the basis of it carrying the baggage of a literal fulfillment of the rapture.

I hold to the belief that the Revelation 12 sign on September 23, 2017 is indeed the sign described by John but that it is NOT the rapture because that would violate the nature of a sign. We are entering a new period of history, one in which many will wake up to the lateness of the hour and a great shaking will take place globally. This sign is a pronouncement of this occurrence and woe to the scoffers who mock on September 24 when the rapture does not happen. Like the blood moons of 2014-2015 this is a significant sign indeed and to throw the baby out with the bath water is the folly of the blind.

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When God created the stars He let us know the reason. “And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years” (Genesis 1:14). First, to divide day from night or light from darkness, which has another layer to its meaning as well. Secondly, for signs and for seasons. “Signs” is precisely what John saw in Revelation 12 and seasons do not refer to winter, spring, summer and fall but rather recurring periods of time.

It is with this acknowledgment of the sovereign design set in motion from the inception of the universe, and the signs placed therein that I proceed with the dissection of its components. My hope in this analysis is that those who claim to know the truth are willing to look deeper and apply a fundamental aspect of God’s nature often overlooked by modern day believers. I am speaking of God’s glory as it appears in the details which can only be uncovered by deep analysis. Before I begin, I’d like to allow the following verses to sink in. These two verses inform my quest for truth, inspire my reverence for God and have heightened my awareness of that which is unseen by the physical eye.

It is the glory of God to conceal things, but the glory of kings is to search things out.” (Proverbs 25:2)

Call unto me, and I will answer thee, and shew thee great and mighty things, which thou knowest not.” (Jeremiah 33:3)

Overview and Order of Sign

If you do not accept the premise that the specific sign in Revelation 12 is to occur in September of 2017 then don’t bother to continue reading as the following will not make much sense. Rather, read my previous post on this topic and search out other resources to reach a conclusion as to what you believe on this matter.

The following Stellarium screenshots of the alignment are from Jerusalem. This is the dawn of September 23, 2017. The first shows the rising of the sign and the second is when I filtered out the ground.

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stellarium-017

The planetary bodies involved are as follows: Regulus, Venus, Mars, Mercury, Sun, Spica, Jupiter, and the Moon. Any study of astronomy will tell you the uniqueness of this event. Study of John’s vision in Revelation 12 will tell you he was speaking of a specific alignment of stars in the heavens. We will now dig deeper into each of the moving pieces as they make a clear and resounding prophetic statement. Remember, Adam was charged with naming the animals but God Himself named the stars. There is a lot of mythology, tradition and etymology surrounding the ancient names of the stars but we find that there are constants regardless of the culture.

He counts the number of the stars; He gives names to all of them (Psalm 147:4)

Lift up your eyes on high and see: who created these? He who brings out their host by number, calling them all by name, by the greatness of his might, and because he is strong in power not one is missing. (Isaiah 40:26)

The names of each star and their patterns of movement are by design NOT by coincidence. It is with this premise we will uncover the remarkable statement God is making with this specific sign which He draws our attention to in Revelation 12. In this event Virgo, the Virgin is giving birth to Jupiter (the King Planet) while holding an ear of wheat in her hand. The alpha star of the constellation Leo, or Lion of Judah, Regulus is first to rise on the horizon followed by Venus (the morningstar). This sign is loaded with symbolic and literal meaning and this is what I hope to unravel for you in the following paragraphs.

Regulus: The Alpha Star of Constellation Leo

Regulus is 79 light years from earth and is the 21st brightest star in the sky. 21 itself is interesting because it 7+7+7 or 777. Seven is God’s perfect number and a number repeated three times in Scripture means completion. This is also year 5777 on the Hebrew calender. 5 is the number of grace, therefore in Biblical numbers it means “divine completion of the period of grace.” Leo is the Lion, in Jewish tradition the lion was the symbol of the tribe of Judah. In Christian tradition the Lion of Judah means Jesus as indicated in Revelation.

The meaning of the name Regulus is consistent throughout different cultures. Here are some of the meanings:

Latin = “prince or little king”

Arabic = “heart of the lion”

Babylonian = “king”

Persian = “the centre”

In all these ancient cultures the star Regulus was a term of royalty. It is the king star in the constellation Leo which in Jewish and Christian tradition always represented “The Lion of Judah”. Therefore, we have “The King, the heart of the Lion of Judah.”

Venus: The Morningstar

The planet Venus is known as the Morningstar when it rises in the east. In this event you can clearly seen that it rises in the east. Jesus is referred to as our bright and Morningstar.

“I, Jesus, have sent my angel to testify to you about these things for the churches. I am the root and the descendant of David, the bright morning star.” (Revelation 22:16)

Because of that experience, we have even greater confidence in the message proclaimed by the prophets. You must pay close attention to what they wrote, for their words are like a lamp shining in a dark place–until the Day dawns, and Christ the Morning Star shines in your hearts.” (2 Peter 1:19)

Now there is a preposterous reference to Lucifer as the morning star in modern translations found in Isaiah. I’m not going to take the time to address this now but I encourage you to do your own research. The original Hebrew texts leave no room for this liberty taken in translation. Every serious Bible student will agree that The Morningstar is a title reserved for Jesus. As Lucifer did since the beginning, the father of lies, attempts to usurp his position and claim title to that which he does not have.

After the moon Venus is the brightest object in the sky. It is the closest in size to earth and it is always brighter than any other star in the sky besides the sun. Venus was also the Roman goddess of love and beauty.

Therefore, “The Morningstar of love and beauty.”

Mars: War

Mars has always been associated with war. From the planet of Nergal the Babylonian war-god to the Roman God of War. The ancient cultures in the far east also attribute Mars to war and destruction. From ancient Sumeria, Persia and to the far east there are associations with Mars and destruction. Many theorize that Mars was a major factor in angel wars of the past. We cannot know these things for sure and must depend on ancient manuscripts and piece together historical fact with mythology. The point to understand is that mythology has some grounding in history and pervasive themes that resonate throughout millennia by legend, oral tradition and manuscripts do so for a reason. Remember, God named the stars and He reigns over every detail for His glory.

Interestingly enough Paul’s most famous sermon in Athens, Greece took place on “Mars Hill”. It was there that he proclaimed the message of Jesus near the inception of our current church age. At the epicenter of worldly wisdom Paul challenged the intellectualism of his day. He challenged the idolatry and deception the Greeks had succumbed to. They had replaced worship of The Living God with that of folklore, graven images and stories they created in their minds to explain their existence. They relied on their intellect as a means of salvation and denied the very God who created their intellect. I contend that “Mars Hill” being the location of this monumental sermon is not a coincidence but rather another layer of God’s communication throughout all periods of history. Remember God is outside of time, He is looking down into the fishbowl which we in our finite minds believe to be an endless ocean.

Therefore, Mars is “war”.

Mercury

Mercury was the Roman deity which meant “messenger to the gods”. In Latin, Mercurius was originally god of tradesman and thieves. Mercury’s orbit is inclined 7 degrees to the plane Earth’s orbit. In ancient Mesopotamia Mercury was named after the god of water and writing. in 733 B.C. the Mayans considered Mercury a morning star. In Egypt, Mercury was associated with the god Thoth – who was the god of knowledge, the inventor of speech, writing and arithmetic.

In Rome we have messenger to the gods, in Egypt knowledge, writing and the inventor of speech and in Mesopotamia we have god of water and writing. When we piece this together we have many specific references. First, water is symbolic of the Holy Spirit.

“He who believes in Me, as the Scripture said, ‘From his innermost being will flow rivers of living water.'” But this He spoke of the Spirit, whom those who believed in Him were to receive; for the Spirit was not yet given, because Jesus was not yet glorified” (John 7:38-39).

We also have the written word. Knowledge, writing and inventor of speech. Jesus is the Word of The Living God. The Bible is His word and through His word He created everything we see.

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God. All things came into being through Him, and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being. In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it. (John 1:1-5)

Therefore, we have “the written Word and the inventor of speech through Whom the world was created.”

The Sun

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The sun is the brightest object in the sky and has a diameter 109 times that of earth. Astronomers believe the sun is getting brighter with time (a billion years)  will eventually evaporate all the earth’s water supply. In ancient Egypt the sun god was Ra. Ra ruled the earth, sky and underworld and was represented by a falcon or hawk. All forms of life were believed to be created when Ra “spoke” their names into existence. In other words, Ra created everything on earth through his spoken words. Do you see the parallel? Satan’s attempt to hijack the truth by directing it into another deity. Remember John 1:1-5 quoted above, that nothing apart from Him (Jesus) that was created came into being. In other words, the Word created everything but in typical fashion Satan’s counterfeit Egyptian deity Ra attempts to unseat the One and only God.

In Egyptian culture man was thought to be born of the tears of Ra thus created in his image. “So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them” (Genesis 1:27). God created man in His image not Ra’s image. But we see the symbolic meaning of the sun in Egyptian culture though misapplied to Ra instead of The One True God.

In Greece we had Helios which later merged with Apollo. Homer describes Helios as providing light to gods and men. We have light giving, created in the image of and creator. The same parallels exist in almost ancient cultures regarding their sun gods. Therefore, we have “the one who breathes life out of His image and gives light to the dark world.”

 Spica

Spica is the 15th brightest object in our sky. It is the alpha star in the constellation Virgo, also known as Alpha Virginis. Virgo is the constellation which represents the Virgin of mythology and also ancient Jewish tradition in the mazzaroth. The reason I mention this is because 5 is the number of grace in the Bible. I should point out that 5+5+5 =15, and three 5’s means made complete. 5 repeated three times equals “grace complete” or “grace fulfilled”. In other words, if you accept that we are currently living in the period of grace you should take note of this seemingly erroneous fact as it does add to the meaning of this event.

The word “Spica” has different but similar meanings:

Latin = Virgo’s ear of grain, usually ‘wheat’.

Arabic = grape gatherer

It is known as ear of wheat in Virgo’s hand. The star Spica is actually a binary star with each star many times larger and brighter than our sun. Some astronomers believe that it may be not just a binary star but actually a quintuple star. A binary star is defined as two stars indistinguishable by telescope as a single light. The Father and the Son are two but One as well, another interesting layer to this.

The meaning here is clear, “gathering the wheat”.

Jupiter

Jupiter is the 5th (again the number of grace) and largest planet in our solar system and is known as “The King Planet”. In Roman times Jupiter was the most powerful deity equivalent to Zeus in Ancient Greece. It was the chief deity of sky and thunder. In Norse tradition this is Thor. So to the Romans what was Jupiter, was Zeus to the Greeks and Thor to the Norse. In all cases we have thunder, lightning and the king planet.

The largest planet in our solar system carrying with it the 5th spot from the sun. We have “the King arriving as lightning in grace.”

The Moon

A brief study on the etymology behind “moon” will show you that it means “month”. All traditions from Sanskrit to Germanic, and from Latin to Greek and even the Slavic languages trace moon to “month”. In ancient Assyria and Chaldea the moon was the supreme deity before they began to discover the other celestial bodies.

The hunter goddess Artemis, was known as the goddess of  virginity and childbirth. The Roman equivalent of Artemis is Diana. The Virgin Mary is associated with new moon as well as Kuan Yin in China. Kuan Yin was the goddess of purity, grace and benevolence.

Do you see how it’s always the same? Same story different culture. Satan does not care how original he is so long as he points the glory away from the One True God. We have the moon goddess representing virginity, whether this is in the form of the pagan religion of Catholicism or Greek thought it’s the same.

For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: for I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ.” (2 Corinthians 11:2)

Therefore we have, the virgin month. Now why is “month” significant to this interpretation? Because, Jesus specifically said “no man knows the day or hour which your bridegroom come.” The Revelation 12 event in September of 2017 takes place on the Feast of Trumpets which is known as “The feast in which no man knows the day or hour” in Jewish tradition. The God of all creation, remember, looking inside the fishbowl from without can use units of time spanning from millenia to centuries to years, all of which are most appropriate when dealing with large units of time. However, He chose “day” or “hour” two very small units of time.

The final piece of our Revelation 12 celestial alignment is that of the moon rising in the east. The last object to ascend is that of the virgin bride.We take all these cultural references to the moon and we have “the month of the virgin.”

Putting it Together

If we take all the individual meanings of each star and planet included in this stellar alignment we have a clear prophetic meaning. For those that find this difficult to believe ask yourself if you believe the same God who created all that we see was capable of having His sovereign hand over etymology and mythology of each of these stars throughout all cultures in history. Remember, He created the heavens for “signs” and for “seasons”, which refers to “appointed times” not winter, spring, summer and fall. Then He tells us in His word devoting an entire chapter in Revelation to this “great sign.” I believe this is worth paying attention to.

Taking the meaning of each star and planet covered above through all cultures for : Regulus, Venus, Mars, Mercury, Sun, Spica, Jupiter, and the moon the message is clear.

When we put it together we have this:

The King, The Lion of Judah, The Morningstar of Love, The Coming War, The Written Word, The One Who Breathed Life Into Being and Light Into Darkness, Is Gathering the Wheat, The King Is Arriving As Lightning With Grace For His Virgin.

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196 thoughts on “What Is The Revelation 12 Sign In 2017 Telling Us?

  1. Glenda

    I read one time that a Jewish watchman would sit on the wall and watch the heavens to know when the Feast of Trumpets would start and the the only way they would know would be to watch for the full moon. If he saw it he would blow the trumpet. No one knew the exact time “day or hour”. I don’t know if it is true, but that is why Jesus said know one knows the day or hour.
    I am really trying to get the deep things of this article. So, the child being born is not Jesus. This time period is beginning of last 3 1/2 years?? Right. The child would be “the bride class”. Probably the 144,000. Rev. says he saw the Holy City, New JeruSalem, stepping down out of the sky from God, and she had been prepared like a bride who had been adorned for her man. I think we know the apostles are the foundation of that city. We also know Rev. 14, says the 144,000 are virgins (brides are suppose to be virgins) this is spiritually virgins. New Jerusalem is the governmental arrangement of the Jesus and the 144,000. Maybe?
    Anyway, you make me think. I am trying to keep my light burning and not go out. I have been waiting almost 70 years.

    • MP

      I believe the 144,000 are literal virgins and they are during the tribulation or 7 year period after the catching away. You are correct about the Jewish idioms surrounding Rosh Hoshanah. The rabbi will blow the shofar when he first sees the sliver of the new moon. People thought this would be 9/13 this year but it actually ended up being 9/15. The watchman on the wall is a separate idiom but is also included as another layer. To always watch, b/c there were severe ramifications for the watchmen who fell asleep at his post. We are to watch with oil in our lamp, understand that we are not unaware of the hour and we cannot not know the day or hour but I believe we can know Rosh Hoshanah will be the feast when our Messiah returns for the bride.

      • Anonymous

        Who are the 144,000? The best explanation I have ever heard was from Pastor Robert Breaker who believes they are the resurrected male first born children (under the age of two at the time) that were killed for Christ by Herod when he tried to kill Christ. This to me makes sense on so many levels.

    • TragicusVeritas

      The beautiful thing about God’s word and his message in Revelation is too grand for our finite minds to grasp, so below is what Revelation has revealed to me.

      The child being born and “caught” up is the church, the woman giving birth is Israel. (Christianity was born out of Judaism through Jesus Christ.)

      12:6 and the woman fled into the wilderness where she had a place prepared by God, so that she might be nourished 1,260 days.
      3.5 years

      I believe that during the first 3 1/2 years Satan will be pursuing the Christians that were raptured, which leads to him being cast out of Heaven for good. (Rev: 12:7-12)

      Then with his realization that he has been completely cast out of God’s domain he makes a last ditch effort to wipe out the chosen people of Israel, breaking the peace and causing the abomination that makes desolation. (Rev: 12:13)

      Upon seeing that even the Earth protects the sealed of Israel, Satan then turns to persecute those who come to the knowledge of Christ “after” the rapture.

      I’ve always looked at Revelation 12 as kind of a “This is what’s happened after the Church age, And so here is what’s coming.”

      It’s interesting to note that there are two periods of 3.5 years mentioned sequentially in Revelation 12.

      In my opinion this Heavenly sign will be one of the last signs before we are raptured, or is the very first sign AFTER we rapture that will bring people to the saving grace of Christ.

    • benjamin Thomas

      Your incorrect the child being born is Jesus. Basically Jesus is descending from the heavens and gathering us the we will all be caught up by God with Jesus.

    • Dennis

      Glenda, No, not the 144,000. Consider this…many theologians through history have looked at Revelation and determined there is a chronology to it but that there are different visions of the same time period. Revelation is similar to Daniel in that that Old Testament book of prophecy has different visions of the same period highlighting different aspects of world history and government. Revelation 12 through 16 is a singular vision of the rapture through the end of the tribulation just as Revelation 4 through 11 is a singular vision of the rapture through the end of the tribulation. Both visions begin with the rapture of the church. John as the “beloved disciple” is a type of the church, the beloved bride, and in Chapter 4 sees a door open in the heavens and a voice like a trumpet saying “come up here!” That is the rapture. This vision ends at the end of Revelation 11 with “end of tribulation” words like, “lightenings, thunderings, earthquakes and hailstones.” Likewise, Revelation 12 begins with the birth of the King and His body, the church. And, as a child of Christ, Christians are “harpadzoed” (raptured) to His throne. Revelation 16 ends with end of tribulation words again like lightening, thunderings, earthquakes and hailstones. Revelation 4 thru 11 is a vision of the rapture and the tribulation from the perspective of heaven looking down. Revelation 12 thru 16 is a vision of the rapture and the tribulation from the perspective of earth looking up. Revelation 17 and 18 is another vision of the destruction of the antichrist system and as a result of this end of tribulation vision, the rapture is not mentioned because it had already happened long ago. Once you get the division of Revelation correct, it is easier to interpret and come to some conclusions as to the identity of the characters referred to. Blessings and continue to be a Berean.

    • Toni

      The watchmen were actually looking for the first sighting of the very first crescent of the new moon, not the full moon, but, yes, that’s correct, and that would mark the official start of the Feast of Trumpets 🙂

      • ray

        A couple days ago I got the word ‘harpazo’ right outta nowhere. I was busy with some mundane task, don’t recall, but not reading Scripture or thinking about it. It wasn’t a voice exactly, but the word appeared in my mind unexpectedly, like someone nearby had whispered w/ delayed reaction. Anyway, that’s an appetizer for philadelphia.

        “He who overcomes, I will make him a pillar in the temple of My God, and he will not go out from it anymore; and I will write on him the name of My God, and the name of the city of My God, the new Jerusalem, which comes down out of heaven from My God, and My new name.” (Rev. 3)

        Nowhere else in Scripture, OT or NT, are such promises made. Christ makes promises to other churches in nearby passages, wonderful promises indeed, but these in Revelation 3:12 are unique and astonishing gifts.

        Cheers.

        • Karen

          Lest We forget “Broad is the path that leadeth to destruction”…taken in conjunction with Luke…the billions upon billions of poor, helpless souls…who knew neither up from down…but have been Guests in Hell since whatever day they checked out of the temporal sphere…imagine, practically everyone you have ever known…save for the good little toads & sycophants…all looking up at Father Abraham…and begging for him to dip his finger in water as they are ALL “being tormented in this flame”….see, this is what happens if you “don’t love Him back”…as if love or belief were ever acts of volition or of the will to begin with.

        • Zach Lavine

          People often equate the story of Sodom and Gomorrah with anti-homosexuality, but I think the more accurate lens is to see it as punishment for a community that had become pervaded by a culture of sexual assault. Here was an entire city so obsessed with fornication and domination of weaker people that they violated that central Biblical precept, take care of the stranger in your land. Rape is not associated with any specific sexual orientation. Rape is a recurring theme in Genesis, from the serpent, to the giants, to the repeated tendency of the Pharoahs to order women to be brought to them. Therefore if you place Sodom and Gomorrah in context with the book as a whole, you will notice how thematically it is consistent. I find it odd that people decry the punishment of an entire town full of rapists. Who would want to live there?

          • Karen

            Since I gravely doubt that you spent a significant portion of time in that jurisdiction…and whatever “insight” you might have on the events that led up to the annihilation is predicated on data that has been so scrambled and re-written to sustain a false narrative, well, as they say, silence for you may be a wiser virtue.

          • Karen

            Zach says:
            take care of the stranger in your land.
            >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

            Jehovah encourages the Children of Israel to mistreat or discriminate against aliens and Gentiles constantly…I could cite scripture…but I assume it is a version of history too well known to merit a line by line recap.

          • Karen

            If there was a devolution to wickedness upon the face of the earth in antediluvian times, well, since man is made by God and in the Image of God…that includes his thinking processes…and all things are “of God”…be they good or bad…then lay the blame where it should rest…with the Creator…who, for perhaps the only time in His Book, takes an ounce of responsibility for His screw-ups by overtly admitting that He erred in making Man.
            Of course, he does not suffer any penalty save for His Regret…the poor slobs of the planet take the hit (as they always do!) and are wiped out; save for Noah and Company.

  2. Thanks for putting all this together. After more than 40 years of understanding who the one, true God is and His great plan of salvation as revealed in the observance of His 7th day Sabbath and annual holy days (Leviticus 23), I came to the understanding that God’s great master plan is written in the stars. BTW, what is your church background? Thanks again.

  3. Scott

    Hi,

    Thank you for all of the information on this amazing configuration of Virgo, the Sun, the Moon, Jupiter and the three planets of Mercury, Mars, and Venus.

    I find that many of those who are “scripture hounds” can often get tangled up in the meanings of symbols and signs. For example, if something is said in scripture to take seven years but it took seventy, they might just say that it is a ten-fold amplification (such as an exclamation point!).

    There has become so many rules on what God can and can not do and say that it becomes ridiculous. I find such interpretation to be baseless and inconsequential. Also I find all of the meanings of the planets as reaching for meaning other than what is common knowledge. And the history books are filled with stories of congregations that went out to meet Jesus on the day of His return and were disappointed when things didn’t go down they way their pastor calculated. There is also a long list of those who believed themselves to be the two prophets mentioned in Revelations 11.

    So now all of this Rapture scenario stuff has become very complex, with all of these things necessary to get the sign off on a specific scenario. And then along comes Stellarium and a whole new context of interpretation.

    What is apparently clear now is that on 23 September 2017 there is an alignment in the heavens (the sky) that is the exact match to Revelations 12:1-2. There can be little denying that. Is Virgo clothed in sun? Yes. Moon beneath her feet? Yes. Crown of Twelve Stars (Nine stars of Leo and 3 wandering stars of Mercury, Mars, and Venus)? Yes. Pregnant with Jupiter for 42 weeks (just over 9 months) and having just given birth? Check.

    The Zodiac is a gigantic clock of the ages that takes about 26k years to cycle through 12 ages. The Lunar cycle is another clock of nineteen years and 235 full moons. They come together into agreement every nineteen years and for 5,000 years have been used to predict solar and lunar eclipses. The Venus cycle is another important cycle, and these have been observed and recorded since antiquity. The Jews, Christians, and Muslims have been acutely aware of these cycles for thousands of years and base their calendars on them.

    There are specific points on this clock that can be described by signs, such as the one above. The woman clothed in the sun happens every September. But as we add features to the sign, such as this list, the number of possible dates narrows quickly. It appears that this date, September 23rd 2017 exactly matches the sign of Revelations 12:1-2. It is crystal clear that this was the intent of the passage.

    So perhaps we should begin to think out of the box a little bit. Since the re-establishment of Israel almost 70 years ago this scenario has grown, as has the tension and hope of the possible outcome over Jerusalem. Surely those who made the arrangement to re-establish Israel (see Lord Balfour https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Balfour_Declaration) were aware that they were bringing the Bible, Torah, and Koran back into active context…

    People act upon these things. For example, there was a transit of Venus on June 8th 2004. June 8th is Muhammad Ascension Day, and one must wonder if they (Al Qaeda)did not believe it to be the anticipated date of His return. After all, the sign of Islam is the Crescent Moon and Venus. Islam is all over the number 19 because of the lunar cycle. I found a prophecy called the Dark Wind of Islam that called for a Jihad of One Thousand Days before the return of Muhammad. I counted back from June 8th 2004 to September 11th, 2001. Guess what – 1,000 days exactly. I believe that this was why they chose September 11th to begin their Jihad.

    Jews, Muslims, and Christians all have their own scenario and expected outcome. They have been waiting for this for over a thousand years! What if the actual outcome is a concession between all three? What if it is the last solution that any of them would accept, but the only one guaranteed to bring lasting peace?

    I believe it will be interesting watching world events for the next couple of years while we wait for September 23, 2017. And I imagine that God will fulfill these things in a way in which all three religions – Hebrews, Christians, and Muslims will be satisfied with, but one they least expect.

    And I would call that justice. And peace.

      • Scott

        To Jews, Christians, and Muslims they are not the same God. But they all look to Abraham, the one whom all believe God made a covenant with and promises to. In Genesis God promises to bless Abraham with a multitude of descendants, and he promises to bless the descendants of both Isaac and Ismael. They are the Jews and the Arabs. Jacob and Edom? They are Israel and Palestine.

        I watched an interesting documentary on the History channel about the books banned from the Bible. It seems at during the early 4th century in Rome, Emperor Constantine commissioned a council to assemble the official Bible. It took a while, but an assembly of scholars labored, led by specific criteria, to choose the books to be kept and the books to be excluded from the Bible. There were hundreds of document, many of them in wide circulation throughout the Roman Empire. Thanks to the brutal treatment of Christians in the 1st and 2nd centuries, many of those documents had made their way down the Nile to safety and were kept in monasteries as far away as Ethiopia. When they received the notice of what to keep and what to burn, they decided to bury rather than burn the books excluded, just in case they later changed their mind. The loved those books!

        The books found in Egypt are now called the Nag Hammadi library. These were the discarded books, found perfectly in tact in a cave some 1600 years later. Documents in Rome talked about the process of inclusion and all of the work they did to select the books and disqualify others. What becomes evident is that people were making this stuff up as they went. For example, when people asked questions about why there was nothing pertaining to his youth, a book appeared explaining the childhood life of Jesus doing miracles and so forth. They said that these books were numerous, and not unlike the dime store novels of their time.

        Now it is interesting to note that Muhammad revealed his knowledge of Jesus in the Koran. Of course, the stories he recanted were from among those found in the missing or banned books. And he accused the Roman Catholics of perverting and changing the message of Jesus by changing the story to suit their needs, of not keeping all of the word.

        Constantine’s council assembled the Bible, and painstakingly argued over every word of the Nicene Creed, for it was this creed that the masses of the Roman Empire were forced to state, under the threat of death, as they renounced their pagan religions and accepted “Christ”. Then they re-tooled all of the festivals and the calendar to correspond with Christian-ized meanings and teachings, and in time the Roman Empire was entirely Christian. For a while.

        The Book of Revelations was not the only Eschatological book considered, but was the one chosen. I personally think Chapter twelve is another look at the general scenario of God and Satan cast down from Heaven. It is symbolism. Who knows whether the sign mentioned in Chapter 12, verses 1 and 2 known of then? Without a doubt it is the sign of Christ – the king born of a virgin. And here it is, coming soon to a world theater near you. The one and only time since the passage was written.

        We certainly have an exciting conclusion building between Jews, Muslims, and Christians over Jerusalem. With ISIS and all of the confusion (brought to you by the Iraq wars I and II) and chaos in the region, anything could happen in short order. The entirety of Christian Eschatology hangs their hat on the hook of Revelations 12:1-2. That is the big enchilada there, the great sign. We’ll see what comes with it. Peace.

        • Cab

          Maybe you need to get your ‘information’ someplace else besides TV. Consider the source. Your version of history does not match the facts. It’s not like there is just one Bible secretly hidden away someplace. And Constantine did not do any canon. The canon was established by the Christians, meaning what they read and considered scripture was self-evident. Nobody took a bunch of Bibles and looked them over in some big room in Constantine’s palace, and firugured which ones they liked and which ones not.

          People need to take TVs to the curb, use a sledgehammer on them so they can’t hurt anybody else. Take your Hollywood DVDs and Marvel comic books with you to the curb. Better yet, just burn them.

          This is Planet Earth, not Disneyland.

      • Cab

        Bible says ‘you’ll know them by their fruits.’ Muslims have the fruit. I’m not saying I agree with the Koran. But Muslims are people of the Book, direct ancestors of Abraham, and Ishmael is buried next to Abraham. The Muslims are the ones who (had) beautiful, peaceful countries, without poverty, crime. Large happy families. Good health. None of the plagues of the Western world had corrupted the Muslim nations. Bible says America is slated for judgment, wipe-out day I believe will be September 23, 2017. The destruction of America is the PRECIPITATING EVENT of the Great Tribulation.

        Jesus said to take the log out of our own eye before we judge the speck in our neighbor’s eye. We in America have a lot of soul-searching to do. Jeremiah says we were ‘once a golden cup in the Lord’s hand,’ and ‘we would have healed her, but she would not (repent).’

        Nineveh repented and got another 400 years. America has not even had 400 years to this date, gone past.

        How about if we look at these celestial bodies for what they are? They are real, actual. They are not cartoons drawn in the sky. The Bible says that Jupiter will be coming face to face with a literal Great Red Dragon. The purpose of that Dragon will be to DEVOUR Jupiter. This we will see from Earth, along with firey hail, and a third of the sky blackened out.

        Revelation describes terrors in the skies that are so horrific that they will cause people to have literal heart attacks.

        Maybe we need to take a look at Jupiter the planet — and how it might react to something else that God might be sending our way for such a time as this, some other celestial object that is able to blot out the sun at noon and to attempt to devour the King Planet, the hugest planet in the solar system which is really a small star, and the surface of Jupiter is fusion, just like the sun is. So whatever that Great Red Dragon is — I would not be spiritualizing it away or trying to say that the Great Tribulation already happened in 70 AD and we are all now living in utopia. Nor would I say that we are going to be whooshed away so all these lovely Christians who think nothing is expected of us won’t have to stub our toes or suffer inconvenience in the Great Tribulation.

        Truth stands on its own. We are not God, and we can’t invent Truth to suit ourselves. A constant refrain in the Bible is ‘Humble yourself.’ Inventing Truth to suit ourselves — that’s what got Satan into trouble. Listening to sweet lies and choosing to believe them is what got Adam and Eve into trouble. We are no different than Adam and Eve were in the Garden. We have just as much ability and freedom to choose the Truth and to obey as they did. If we choose the lies the way they did, we will lose not only our physical lies as they did, but our souls will be lost also.

        The very last page of the Holy Bible makes this warning TWICE: Whosoever loves and makes a lie will be outside Heaven’s Gates. (that means Hell)

        We need to start taking the Bible seriously, and stop inventing stories and redefining words and embracing Gnostic pagan philosophies — all to explain the Bible all away.

    • Cab

      Best post I’ve seen on here. I don’t think most of the people posting here realize there is such a program as Stellarium, or that Rev. 12 star sign provides the coordinates to give us an exact date, one day in 7000 years. People seem to think it’s a metaphorical mystery unrelated to the literal sign in the sky that literally will take place on one certain day.

      I can understand the confusion because until I realized Rev. 12 is talking about Virgo and Jupiter and constellation Leo and some wandering stars forming a pattern in the literal sky canopy on a certain day, hour and year — I would have spoken as some of these posters. Actually, I would not have given an opinion because the sign just made no sense to me, so I would not have ventured an interpretation.

      Unfortunately, I don’t think most of the people posting here realize that Rev. 12 is talking about the constellation Virgo and Jupiter entering the womb area in November 2016, to retrograde there for 42 weeks. I don’t think the people posting here have heard a word about Planet X, Nibiru, the Great Red Dragon of Old, or heard of Gill Broussard or David Meade.

      So I’m posting the video here that’s 2.5 minutes long that explains the literal star sign as it will appear once in 7000 years, as described in the Bible, literally, on 9/23/17.

      I hope people will watch it. There are 4 parts to this star sign, and if any one of them is missing then the star sign will not be complete.

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OXNojarrHYk

      Also this one on Jupiter is relevant: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lwtnf6m6AJI

  4. Anonymous

    Revelations also has prophecy of September 2013 and in November that year 7 planets aligned for the first time in many many years

    • Cab

      To Anonymous: The alignment of 7 planets is only one of four parts of the star sign of Rev. 12, and it has occurred many times in history. You need also the 9 month pregnancy of Jupiter in the womb area, and the 12 stars in the crown, the moon at the feet of the woman (Virgo) and clothed with the sun (sun on her shoulder). It’s a daytime sign that can only be known about in the charts. But I think we will see it anyway when Jupiter and the Red Dragon clash. I also think we may get total eclipse that day from the wings of this rogue planet Nibiru, aka Fiery Red Dragon of Old. That’s my opinion, that we won’t need to be facing the right way, and it won’t matter that it is broad daylight, because as the Bible says the sun will be black as sackcloth.

      Seven planets aligned is no big deal, and the date of 2013 has come and gone and nobody noted or noticed it as significant. But I believe 9/23/17 will be one of the hugest dates in the history of the world, and that’s an understatement.

      • Marie

        It is interesting that you posted this yesterday. I had been looking at Revelation 12 yesterday and said to my husband that we have been talking about the wonderous sign of verse 12:1 but what about verse 3? What is “another sign.”? And why is it a red dragon? Thanks. I love it when the Lord does that.

  5. Tony Halliday

    Please allow me to leave you with a quotation from an amazing old book ‘All Things New’, by the saint Arthur Bloomfield. “A woman in scripture, in its broadest sense, when used symbolically, always represents a church; this would include the saints of the old testament. (A wicked woman is an evil or false church.)
    This woman (Virgo) represents the visible church. A visible church includes all its members. There is an invisible church which consists only of the saved. Not all church members are saved. People join the church for various reasons.
    This woman is the symbol of the church of the 2nd and 3rd chapters of Revelation. There the word ‘church’ means the visible church. There even Thyatira and Laodicea are considered churches. Only in the day of separation will the true church be revealed. The church holds her place among the candlesticks only because of the faithful ones within her…If the woman is a symbol, then the child is also a symbol. Logically, if the woman represents a large body of people, the visible church, then the child represents a smaller body of people which comes out of the larger body. The child is the invisible church. There is to be a birth, a sudden separation. This is a picture of the rapture. The child is “caught up” into heaven. The church that is left must face Antichrist.” That’s why the woman, once in the wilderness, has lost all her glory – the faithful ones have been removed. I know many say this woman represents Israel and the man-child represents Christ. But you can’t have a symbol giving birth to a real person (Christ). And there is nothing in Israel’s history that fits this ‘story’. Jesus said at the beginning of the book that He would show things “shortly to come to pass”, not things that had already occurred. There is no contextual reason to make this Israel. In the bible symbols are never used to explain past events, only events future to the time of writing. According to Rev 2. 27 the man-child who rules with a “rod of iron” is Jesus’ body: “And he that overcomes, and keeps my works to the end, to him will I give power over the nations: And he shall rule them with a rod of iron…” Jesus is already enthroned and prepared to judge the world, but He needs us (“do you not know the saints shall judge the world”). We can find our own throne in Rev 20.4 (see below).
    Our heavenly Father has kept the ages of ‘law’ and ‘grace’ separate for 2000 years. They are legal covenants and you cannot mix ‘contracts’ together at will. Daniels prophecy of 70 weeks of years (of law) for Israel still has 1 week (7 years) to run. But the ‘grace’ woman is in the wilderness for 1260 days (3 1/2 years). This means there are 3 periods of 3 1/2 years, not 2. The rapture ends a time of pure grace, but there follows 1260 days of grace mixed with wrath in which gentiles in particular can be saved. This is verified in the book of Habakkuk: “O Lord, revive your work in the midst of the years, in the midst of the years make known; in wrath remember mercy…Was the Lord displeased against the rivers? was your anger against the rivers? was your wrath against the sea, that you did ride upon your horses and your chariots of salvation? Your bow was made quite naked, according to the oaths of the tribes”. (this is our Savior with a bow and no arrows bringing salvation on the white horse of Rev 6.2 in the midst of the wrath of the other three horses. It is not the Antichrist bringing a false peace as is blasphemously taught). “According to the oaths of the tribes” doubtless refers to the 144000 from the 12 tribes of Israel who are among the last Christians saved before the end of the age of grace, 1260 days after the rapture.
    Dr J A Seiss interprets the meanings of the names of the tribes of Israel as provided in order in the Rev 7.4 passage as follows: “Confessors or praisers of God, looking upon the Son, a band of blessed ones, wrestling with forgetfulness, hearing and obeying the word, cleaving unto the reward of a shelter and home, an addition, sons of the day of God’s right hand, begotten in the extremity of the age”. Dan is excluded from the list because it means ‘judging’ and these 144000 never become judges (they are sealed and remain on earth). Ephraim is excluded because it means ‘multiplication’; these are a fixed number.
    Revelation 20.4 + 5 identifies the end of the age of grace as being the end of the 1260 days of the woman persecuted in the wilderness: “And I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgement was given to them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection”. Jesus is the firstfruits, then the dead in Christ and we which are alive at the time of the rapture, then a “great multitude” of latecomers who are murdered by the Antichrist comprise the first resurrection. Rev 7 9+14: “After this I beheld, and lo, a great multitude…These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb…”. Then comes the end of the age of grace. For the final 7 years of ‘law’, despite the horrors gentiles endure, we read repeatedly that “they repented not”.
    Jupiter leaves the ‘womb’ of the woman, Virgo, on October the 11th, 2017, less than 1 month after the sign occurs on September 23rd; by October 11th she has given birth. How merciful is our Savior that He gives us time to call on His Spirit to purify us! As of March 2016 there is no-one we can definitely identify as Antichrist. But Before September 23rd 2017 it’s highly likely there will be. This sign is not a small thing. Come, Lord Jesus! Amen!

    • MP

      Tony this is fascinating thank you for sharing.
      This falls in line with the labor pains, then the birth. The pregnancy would begin Dec-Jan. and would manifest perhaps with some morning sickness.
      As we approach the birth of the child eventually labor would take place, with contractions getting closer and closer as the day approaches.

      I can see how the child works as a symbol for the spiritually prepared church. Traditionally, the man child is seen as Jesus with the rod of iron ruling the nations. This is true but it could also be the purified church as we will rule and reign with Him. Furthermore, the raptured church is coming down with Him when He destroys the AC. This is all so interesting to me, I am unable to place anything else in this event or slot as far as prophecy.

      The only other thing could be an announcement of the catching away and rise of the AC to take place within a window of time. In other words, it could be a warning that would then come to fruition 2 years later. Back to your thoughts, I am unable to find any other prophetic/biblical explanation based on Jewish Holy Days and unfulfilled patterns that works.

      Shalom

      • Tony Halliday

        Hi Matt, I can imagine you’re under a lot of pressure to maintain your site(s), so very kind of you to take the time to reply.
        Regarding the woman in travail with the man-child, I don’t think any interpretation is possible other than the one which says the woman is the visible church and the man-child is the overcoming (raptured) church IF we properly apply the rules of bible exegesis. Anyone can make a symbol mean anything, so our Lord Yeshua gives us fail-safe rules to take us to the right understanding. When you ignore those rules you end up like those who say the rider on the white horse is antichrist. There is no contextual reason to say it. Why aren’t the “living ones” also counterfits? White everywhere else in the bible represents righteousness. Antichrist always wears a ‘diadema’ crown. Yeshua and the saints wear ‘stephanos’ crowns. This Rider is wearing a stephanos crown. The rider comes out of heaven; the antichrist certainly doesn’t. Chapter 3 of Habakkuk, where we see this same Almighty Rider, is virtually parallel to chapter 6 of Revelation, yet this teaching pervades the church. I wonder if this false teaching isn’t a work of the devil. Bad exegesis!
        Back to the woman. The “beginning of sorrows” of Matthew 24.8 are listed in verse 7 as “nation against nation…famines and pestilences and earthquakes. These all figure in the Chapter 6 seals of Revelation among the first signs that an age is about to end (the apostles didn’t know two ages were ending almost simultaneously). These signs happen to the nations and can’t be the same as the birth pains which logically have to happen to the church. I believe the visible church is probably going through the convulsions of birth pains now, as the man child is positioning itself to leave her body. These convulsions display themselves in the churches struggle to rid itself of the truth (the man-child) in order to take its place as a key driver in the coming one world religion. Eventually (soon) Yeshua will determine that the two can no longer co-exist and take His children to Himself. At this point the apostate church will take its place with antichrist and those who realise their mistake will be persecuted by him in the wilderness. Our Father’s plan does not allow Yeshua to administer this period of 1260 days of grace under ‘law’. There would be an inherent contradiction.
        This makes the ‘last days’ 10 1/2 years long. I believe the rapture will occur around the Feast of Yom Teruah – Trumpets. I believe it’s possible that no Feast heralds the beginning of the final seven years of law, but that Yom Kippur occurs around 10 1/2 years after Trumpets at the end of this period when, as Isaiah prophesied “the redeemer will come to Zion” and Jeremiah said “They will all know me, from the least to the greatest”. Isaiah:59.20 & Jeremiah: 31.34. Also Zechariah 12.10 – “They will look upon Him whom they have pierced…” This is the Day of Atonement; the day all Israel looks forward to. Soon afterward, when Yeshua sets up His glorious kingdom, Sukkot will take place and God will tabernacle with men.
        There are so many convolutions of days and date counts (literally hundreds on the web) that it’s not really possible to be definitive about what will happen when. I tend to try to place the Lord’s prophecies in the right order and in doing so I observe that time seems to be getting very short. I note for example that prophecies speaking to the LAND of Israel rather than the people give us a clear understanding of of what will transpire during this, Israel’s preliminary return. The land has to be prepared for the full return “in one day”. But Israel will first have to be evicted from the land according to God’s unbreakable Word, because it’s in the land in disobedience to His law. There’s no getting around this although no-one seems to realise it.
        As you’d be aware, there are two women in travail in the bible. A woman in travail is symbolic of a resurrection. People think Ezekial 37.11-14 (the valley of dry bones) has already taken place. But if you study it you see it’s still future. Look at the woman in labor in Isaiah 66.7-8: “BEFORE SHE TRAVAILED she brought forth…a man-child…AS SOON AS ZION TRAVAILED she brought forth her children”. Israel today is the man-child. She has to be evicted, then travail in birth and bring forth her children. Regarding the eviction: “For thy violence against thy brother Jacob shame shall cover thee, and thou shalt be cut off forever. In the day that thou stood on the other side, in the day that the strangers (antichrist?) carried away captive his forces, and foreigners entered into his gates, and cast lots upon Jerusalem, even thou wast as one of them…Neither shouldst thou have stood in the crossway, to cut off those of his that did escape: neither shouldst thou have delivered up those of his that did remain in the day of distress. FOR THE DAY OF THE LORD IS NEAR UPON ALL THE HEATHEN, as thou hast done it shall be done to you: thy reward shall return upon thine own head. Obadiah: 10-14. This final threat of retribution is probably the fulfillment of Psalm 83. But first Israel has to be evicted from its land by the Arabs and “strangers from the west” and transported to the “wilderness” of Egypt to die (this will lead to the resurrection prophesy of the valley of dry bones). Then the Lord will return all Israel to all of its land, from the Euphrates to the Nile. “As I live says the Lord, surely with a mighty hand , and with a stretched out arm, and with fury poured out will I rule over you. And I will bring you out from the people, and will gather you out from the countries wherein you are scattered, with a mighty hand and with a stretched out arm and with fury poured out. And I will bring you into the wilderness of the people and there will I plead with you face to face. Like as I pleaded with your fathers in the wilderness of Egypt, so will I plead with you says the Lord God. And I will cause you to pass under the rod, and I will bring you into the bond of the covenant. And I will purge out from among you the rebels and those that transgress against me. I will bring forth out of the country where they sojurn, and they shall not enter into the land of Israel: and you shall know that I am the Lord”. Ezek: 20. 33-38. The antichrist is “against (this) holy covenant”.
        Yeshua will not be spending eternity thanking Lord Rothschild and Lord Balfour for recreating His nation Israel. When the 144000 Messianic Israelites are sealed at the end of the 1260 days, they are in Israel. So the Jews MUST be evicted and returned to their land by Yashua before that period ends. This has to happen soon because there are two resurrections taking place very close together and two covenants being concluded very close together. This is why there is so much confusion. When the apostles asked Yeshua for the signs of the end of the age they didn’t know two ages would be ending together. They didn’t’ realise Yeshua would have to include signs of the conclusion of two ages, for all those who would read His words in the last days.
        I’m taking a long time to say we tend to leave a lot out when we consider the last days. I believe antichrist has to persecute Israel close to the time of the rapture, but that he’ll only be revealed as the antichrist after he receives a head wound and is indwelt by satan at the time of the rapture when satan is cast out of heaven. Until the rapture the Restrainer is at work. I know that antichrist has to rebuild Tyre and Babylon, one as his commercial centre and one as his religious centre. So when the Restrainer is taken out of the way, at the time satan comes down, it will all come in with a flood. He won’t be able to touch Israel until he finds a way to substitute his treaty (their covenant with death) with their covenant with Yahweh they will have renewed in the wilderness of the people. He succeeds in negotiating this substitution at the start of the final 7 years of law. In the meantime he’ll be beheading Christians for 1260 days (the end of the age of grace). There is so much to say about all this, especially about Israel’s 3 relationships. The first with the land, the second with Yahweh and the third with Yeshua. When these 3 are properly established (and they happen in that order), the Kingdom has come. All the best Matt. God bless you, of course. TH

        • MP

          The Revelation 12 sign has to be something massive. In the parable of the virgins, the unwise do not have oil in their lamps. They are not part of the “restrainer” and will not be removed. For those who do believe in a rapture prior to the tribulation they tend to think all who are saved are going. I believe this a major oversight. What I always wonder is how long after the restrainer is removed before the day counts begin. I could foresee a 2-5 year window where there is chaos prior to the AC establishing the world government. I tend to believe it moves quickly. If we are not in any way deceived about the sign on September 23, 2017 (and I don’t believe we are) then we must place something, some event at this point. We know it’s not an accident and God is very specific and intentional with signs in the heavens (and everything else). The fact it is unclear does point to the mystery of the rapture. However, I still believe it could be the final warning and the world could plunge into chaos, massive labor pains for a short season. One thing is for certain if recent history serves as an indicator, that is many more signs both in world events and the heavens will manifest as we approach. Thanks for sharing your insights Tony, I greatly enjoy reading your thoughts. God bless

          • Tony Halliday

            Hi Matt, my understanding is that day counts are freely given after the rapture (1260, 1335 days, 1290 days, etc), but only signs are given before the rapture. The war in the heavens (at the rapture) is a real war. No leader gives away His timing to the enemy. That’s possibly why the closest we can get is our speculation that the rapture event takes place within about a month of the Rev 12 sign. And we could be wrong. It could even take place months after, or even before the sign. Satan and his angels have to be taken by surprise. Revelation gives us a picture of the dragon before the woman, trying to read the birth signs, waiting for the moment he can devour the child on its way to the third heaven. If that child gets into heaven he knows he’s only got a decade to live. And he knows he’ll lose his position of power as “the prince of the power of the air” when he’s cast down to the earth. That’s why he needs a man’s body to operate on earth.
            As for many signs manifesting as we approach. Before the rapture God’s word seems to give us 3 general time zones:
            The first one is a “time of terror(ism?)” for the nations, “wars and commotions” and all hope gone. This will probably include an economic collapse and chaos. Recall what Habukkuk says about the world before antichrist: “Oh, Lord, How long shall I cry and you will not hear, even cry out to you violence and you will not save. Why do you show me iniquity and cause me to behold grievance, for spoiling and violence are before me, and there are those that raise up strife and contention. Therefore the law is made slack and right judgement does never go forth, for the wicked surround the righteous, therefore wrong judgement proceeds. Behold you among the heathen and regard and wonder marvelously. For Lo, I raise up the Chaldeans. That bitter and hasty nation which shall march through the land to possess the places that are not theirs. They are terrible and dreadful. Their pride and their dignity proceeds from themselves”. After a few verses Habakkuk forgets the nation and focuses on the rise of the man who leads them. The first part of this prophecy describes the elites, and world conditions we have right now, although things will doubtless worsen. It’s describing corrupt government and world wide division. Straight away I think of the U S. But the second part of the prophecy describes the type of nation he comes from. Bitter, hasty and arrogant. Daniel says they initially travel “south and east and towards the pleasant land (Israel). Antichrist will hate Israel and the Christians from his beginning. If he travels south and east, it puts his country in the north west. Do you know a country in the northwest of Europe that’s bitter in defeat, fights hasty wars (blitzkrieg) and is a proud nation? It’s possible the Lord will use Germany as “The rod of His anger”. Daniel says, “In the latter time of their kingdom, when the transgressors are come to the full (the elites), a king of fierce countenance and understanding dark sentences shall stand up. And his power shall be mighty, but not by his own power…”. Paul says he comes with all power and signs and lying wonders”. These verses exclude people like Barak Obama as candidates. He hates the living God, but he comes from the wrong place and has not come with all power. Habakkuk talks about him bringing “dust” with him and covering himself with “clay”. This may be some form of nano-particle he uses as a weapon. At any rate he has something new that makes him invincible. Most politicians promise tax cuts. This man will identify himself as “a raiser of taxes” and “more stout than his fellows”. From the beginning he’s empowered by satan, but he is not satan in the flesh until the rapture. I believe this man will come out of the chaos of economic collapse and steal the new world order for himself. Satan doesn’t share.
            In this same time zone, for the church there is the beginning of persecution, false christs and deceit. For the Jews we already have the restoration of the land, a preliminary return and trouble with their Arab brothers. But those blood moons weren’t for nothing. The Arabs will be in league with antichrist to rid “Palestine” of the Jews. This means he has to rise during this time zone, while the Jews are fighting with the Arabs.
            The second time zone should see antichrist defeat terrorism and any country that opposes him, establish a world economy, and build Tyre and Babylon. Egypt has to become a world power (the king of the south). Of course there will be a world church, but there will also be the preaching of the gospel and the preparation of the bride. The Jews will be kicked out of Israel, Yahweh will march them back in under His own power and behind the “banner” or “ensign”, which will probably be the Ark of the Covenant (before they march back, 5 towns in Egypt will speak Hebrew). With the Ark they’ll be invincible and the Arabs will be destroyed. This will likely be when they build their third temple.
            The final time zone will see the nations experiencing great prosperity and proclaiming peace and safety at last. The visible church will be apostate and wealthy and ask “where is the promise of His coming”. Israel will be extremely prosperous and abandon their God again, ultimately in favour of antichrist.
            Some of this third time zone may happen during the final 1260 days of grace (such as Israel’s final return), but it still seems there is almost too much to happen before the rapture. Yet all of it is prophesied, and a great deal of it really can’t happen after the rapture. Once we have an economic collapse and this man emerges “after the working of satan”, these events must unfold like a whirlwind. I guess the world will be carried along like a toothpick in a tsunami;
            I’d say we’d better batten down the hatches! Great to hear your thoughts too, Matt. God bless. TH.

          • Cab

            We know for sure that the starsign of Rev. 12 includes some fearsome planetary body known as the Great Red Dragon. A confrontation between something that is fiery and has the ability with its tail to hurl down fireballs and blot out a third of the sky — AKA the Great Red Dragon, possibly the Destroyer, The Frightener spoken of in earlier times. This thing that’s been by before will be confronting Jupiter — the largest, hottest planet in our solar system. Jupiter has surface fusion and eats comets as they come in to our system, and either digests them to increase its own mass or spits them out into the sun.

            If this Great Red Dragon is the winged orb, that we see the symbol on everything — having the two huge tails, and one of them will eclipse earth, then the Bible prophecies concerning the destruction of America will happen that day, or rather that evening, a near total destruction to be completed the next morning when the country is invaded with soldiers to cover the land ‘like caterpillers’ as Jeremiah prophesies.

            I’d say this star sign is huge. It’s not going to come and go without a shudder. It’s not like the first time this star sign appeared to foretell the birth of Christ. This time it’s to foretell the second coming, and the Day of the Lord.

            I’m not dogmatic on any of this that I’ve said above. My personal belief is that this star sign will herald the beginning of the Great Tribulation, aka the Day of the Lord, and also the precipitating event that coincides with this star sign is the destruction of Babylon (aka the USA).

      • Cab

        According to the Bible there won’t be anything to rule and reign over until Jesus comes to create a New Heaven and Earth. The Bible also says that to claim that Jesus has already come and gone is a heresy, and ‘destroys the faith of many.’

  6. Steve Christ

    Rev 12, we overcome by the Blood of the Lamb and the word of our witness. We as believers have the name and power of Jesus to speak shalom to contrary winds and waves and contrary spirits that would hinder or keep us getting to where we are going. Where has Jesus told you to go? I plead the Blood of Jesus, I speak, Shalom. The Kingdom of God is righteousness, peace and joy, in the Holy Spirit. My righteousness of Faith, Speaks; it is near me, in my mouth and in my heart. Jesus give us His Righteousness, this is where our rights come from.
    The gift of righteousness, Jesus has given us, give us in the Kingdom, the right to shalom, peace and joy. In the secret place of Psalms 91, it does not come near me. Battening down the hatches equates to learning to speak shalom, peace to these winds and waves, and spirits of destruction in the name of Jesus. If the Kingdom dwells inside you, it’s time to start speaking the Righteousness of faith.

    • Steve Christ

      The 70 weeks of Daniel, in the line of thinking as Tony Halliday states, “Yeshua will not be spending eternity thanking Lord Rothschild and Lord Balfour for recreating His nation Israel.” 70 weeks are determined, 69 weeks, midst of the week Messiah is cut off. Let’s see, when was Messiah cut off? Wow let’s over think this and come up with the Gap Theory. Sir Robert Anderson developed the gap theory of this last 70th week, bringing in the end time tribulation. Jesus said, I will destroy this temple and not one stone shall be left upon another. In 70 AD Jesus destroyed the temple. Josephus states there were massive earth quakes that without divine fulfillment, the Romans could not have leveled the temple the way that it was.
      This tribulation is done, over, a thing of the past. Your whole end time theology was manufactured by the Rothschild, Israel recreating people to stir up fear, doubt and unbelief.
      You watch and see, Believers have authority to speak shalom and death Ebola; not to mention every catastrophe on earth. Yashua destroyed the works of the devil. You have the power to speak shalom, peace in Jesus name, Speak it, having His Righteousness, the Righteousness of faith. If your eschatology does not blind you to the purpose of the Kingdom and what Yashua has called you to do; you will proclaim the gospel of the Kingdom. Will the Kingdom counteract the stars? What do you think the Kingdom is for? It is to intervene in events that only the Kingdom can subdue. Seek first His Kingdom and His Righteousness. Eph 4:24 The new man is created in righteousness and Holiness of Truth.
      Rejoice and be Glad with exceedingly great joy.

      • Cab

        Don’t you wish. Bible says the Tribulation will be the worst time in history. Knocking over a temple does not constitute that. Wresting scriptures to your own destruction.

        God is the one who decides what’s True, and God is Truth. Our job is to seek out the Truth, and then embrace and submit to it. Not try to twist it around and make it say what we want it to say. We are not God. We cannot will reality into being by our speech or our wishes.

  7. Anonymous

    MP,
    I just read this again, don’t want to miss anything. Have a question.
    I assume the 3 1/2 years start when the “harpazo” takes place. So 3 1/2 years will be up on the Jewish Passover (seems like give or take a day or so). Is the wrath of God over at that time and Satan thrown into the bottomless pit. I am trying to get a timeline.
    Thanks, Glenda

    • MP

      I’m not sure we will be able to get a timeline down for this stuff. If it is His will we do understand these things they have not been revealed to the body yet. I think the Revelation 12 sign is the beginning of some major changes. It could be the harpazo or the announcement that it will follow. It could be major turmoil followed by a couple years of labor pains then the harpazo then Jacob’s Trouble. The one aspect that I tend to get pretty dogmatic is the 6000 years of creation. We know from Jewish scholars, both Messianic and orthodox that 2036 AD is pretty much the final year that the 6000th year could be. Many, have this at 2024 and anywhere in between. I tend to believe in 2024-2028 AD time frame myself. Since God is perfect and a day is a thousand years I believe the Millennial reign begins on day 6000. That’s as far as I am willing to go with a timeline. I also believe more will come into focus for all of us as we get closer to the time.

  8. Anonymous

    MP,
    I understand everything you explained about the stars. The woman gives birth and Satan is thrown down “right?” . After the labor pains a child is born, then there is rejoicing–in heaven not on earth. On earth Satan is thrown down and he only has 3 1/2 years. Then he is thrown into abyss. How can we add more time leading to 2024. If the Bible tells us after the 3 1/2 years Satan is gone from the Earth.
    I am not trying to be a pain, but something is missing here.
    Glenda

    • MP

      You are not a pain.
      This is a correct understanding of the sign as described both in the heavens and in Revelation 12.
      We just cannot know for certainty how events line up with the date. Will something take place within the same 3 days or is it going to be 40 days or 400 days from the sign. In other words, if the sign is a precursor to what will shortly follow or if the time of it will coincide directly with the conclusion or beginning of the labor pains.

  9. MP

    The documentary “Iron Virgin” on AC Green connects to this sign – http://www.dailycrow.com/links/
    Both Iron and Virgin are represented in Revelation 12, the movie was released on the eve of Passover 4/21 on the same day Prince died. It is 520 days from the Revelation 12 sign.

    Strong’s #520 – ‘ammâh – cubit – a measure of distance (the forearm), roughly 18 inches. First mention – Genesis 6:15: “of the ark shall be three hundred cubits, the breadth of it fifty cubits, and the height”.
    Strong’s Greek #520 – apagó – I lead, carry, take away; met: I am led astray, seduced.

    Taken together with the understanding that Revelation 12 is a “both” event. Satan is cast down, woe to the inhabitants of the earth after the virgin gives birth to the man child who will rule with iron. It is no coincidence that #520 strong’s is “the ark”, “carry away” and “led astray, seduced” or great deception. It is usually “both” less often “either/or”.

  10. The woman is, as Paul states in Galatians, Jerusalem which is above the mother of us all.
    Galatians 4:22-26 KJVS
    [22] For it is written, that Abraham had two sons, the one by a bondmaid, the other by a freewoman. [23] But he who was of the bondwoman was born after the flesh; but he of the freewoman was by promise. [24] Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar. [25] For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children. [26] But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.
    It is quite fitting then, that the fellow members of Christ’s body are resurrected and the event is heralded by this glorious sign in the sky. Culminating and finishing the mystery of God which is Christ in you the hope of glory, Col 1:27.
    Revelation 10:7 KJVS
    [7] But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets.

  11. Hey Tony, enjoyed the article. I also publish a WordPress site. A nice plugin that I use on my site is called RefTagger by Logos Bible software.
    When you cite a scripture like Re 12:1 in a published article and the reader clicks on the highlighted verse, it brings the verse up in a small window. Nice plugin for website’s like ours that deal with scripture and interpretation of scripture.

  12. Armando

    Hello Matt,
    I truly believe we are living in the Great tribulation time and here is why:

    “Judgement must begin at the house of God” 1Peter 4:17

    Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, Except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition ; who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped ; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God. 2 Thess 2:3-4

    Throughout the past theologians have believed that Satan would finally rule the world by means of in dwelling a very prominent political-religious man. In the past such rulers as Kaiser Wilhelm, Adolf Hitler, Mussolini, or some supreme ruler of the Catholic Church have in their time of power been looked at as possible candidates for the antichrist. However, each of these individuals have died and the world continued thus indicating the speculation.

    However, in our day we know for certain who this man of sin is, this antichrist, is. The Bible verse that exposes him is 1John 4:3:

    And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it he should come; and even now already is it he in the world.

    However, the description of the antichrist in this verse fits perfectly well with Satan. He was in existence 2000 years ago and is still very much in existence today. He is described together with those who blindly assist him in 2 Corinthians 11:13-15:
    For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into apostles of Christ. And no marvel ; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light. Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; who’s end shall be according to there works.

    Another striking characteristic of the Great Tribulation is described by
    the language of Mathew 24:24

    For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall show great signs and wonders ; insomuch that if it were possible , they shall DECIEVE the very elect.

    Satan indeed fits all the Biblical statements that speak of ” the man of sin” or the “antichrist”. He is called a man because he was typified by the King of Babylon in Isaiah 14:4-20. In verse 16 of Isaiah 14 God is speaking of Satan in this context by the language, “Is this the man that made the earth tremble, that did shake Kingdoms; that made the world as a wilderness. . .”

    I believe Revelation 2:5, has already been fulfilled “I come unto thee quickly” and remove your candle stick.

    However, now a question arises. How is it possible judgement has begun in the house of God?
    The word “judgement” or “judgements” is used very frequently in the Bible as a synonym for “law” or ” precept” or “commandment.” For example Psalm 119 Thus we know that the laws of God are the judgments of God. Thus,, since sin is transgression of the law of God, it is therefore a transgression of the judgement of God

    The very institution where the word of God should be has become apostate it has fallen it has become Babylon the Great!

    He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me John 14:21

    Yea, he magnified himself even to the prince of the host , and by him the daily sacrifice was taken away , and the place of his sanctuary was cast down . And an host was given him against the daily sacrifice by reason of transgression, and it cast down the TRUTH to the ground ; and it practiced , and prospered. Daniel 8:11-12

    Behold, the days come, saith the lord God, that I will send a FAMINE in the land , not of bread, nor a thirst for water, but of hearing the words of the Lord. Amos 8:11

    A famine of hearing the word of God means that God is no longer giving people ears to hear ; they hear the words with their physical ears but that Word is not Spiritually applied to their hearts because God the Holy Spirit no longer dwells in the church or local institution.

    “Faith comets by hearing , and hearing by the word of God ” Romans 10:17

    Jesus is the very essence of Faith and without Faith it is impossible to please God.

    There was a starting time and that was back in 33AD when the Holy Spirit was poured out and about 3000 were saved and became the start of the church age Acts 2. But there is a closing time which the Bible mentions half hour of silence in Heaven the time of Babylon the Great!

    How is the faithful city become an harlot! It was full of judgement; righteousness lodged in it ; but now murderers. Isaiah 1:21

    Many are called but few are chosen. Matthew 22:14

    Yet within the spiritual graveyard of the world , there is one here , one there, one in another place who hears the voice of the Great Shepard!

    In Reference to Revelation 12:

    The date 9/23/2017, I’ve been thinking about what Jesus said as in the days of Noah so shall the coming of the Son of Man be. What really has me wondering is that in Genesis 7:10-11
    The Lord tells us in the 2 month 17 day of the month the same day were all the fountains of the great deep broken up. Notice the 2 and 17 2017?

    Also, there were eight people on the ark that were saved. The phrase “last day” is found only eight times in the Bible. Once in the Old Testament and seven in the New Testament. The Feast of Tabernacles or the Feast of In gathering was definitely linked to the end of the world.

    The number 23 appears to illustrate Gods judgement 2300 days in Daniel 8:14 another example is 1 Corinthians 10:8 God is describing a plague which was recorded in Numbers 25:9. Actually 24,000 were killed in the plague but in 1 Corinthians 10:8 the Bible declares 23,000 fell in one day! 9/23/17

    Matt your site has been a blessing to me. May God continue to bless you and strengthen you through Christ Jesus!

    • Colin

      I have a really dumb question…why is the Church not more aware of this? Are they really that much in sleep? When I bring this up to bible believing friends and family, they react either as if Im crazy, or with general disinterest. Its actually rather disheartening and makes me question the significance of it.

      • Cab

        It is hard to absorb when you first hear of it. We are taught that zodiac signs are astrology — not Biblical. When you do a Google search you’ll see this information has been out for 4 years. Maybe longer. I had never heard of it. When I did hear of it, it’s telling me that on 9/23/17 America will be invaded and destroyed — by a confederation of nations and also by an act or acts of God. It’s huge in the Bible — Jeremiah 50 and 51 and Rev. 16, 17 and 18, and elsewhere also.

        I always read Rev. 12 as a mystical vision, not as a sky sign, until I heard David Meade explain it as a bona fide sky sign providing us a date certain.

        Since then, I take it for what it is, a sky sign, and I figure that on that date Jupiter will contend with Nibiru aka Great Red Dragon of Old aka The Destroyer. The Great Red Dragon will be waiting to devour Jupiter. I’m told that Nibiru is much larger than our King Planet.

        I think it will be a sight to behold that we will never forget. I think we had all best be out of the country before that date happens.

        • MP

          Cab, while you may be correct I believe it’s important to understand that a sign in the heavens does not mean the physical manifestation of its meaning must take place at the same time. This sign could be a 1260, 1290 day countdown to the physical.

      • You are so right Colin. I too have told friends who are Christians and they seem totally ignorant of these teachings. Our ministers and clergymen preach Salvation which is first and foremost but just choose to ignore these other deeper teachings because either they just don’t understand them or feel out of their depth trying to explain them. The churched have become bored because of no explanation being given for many of the signs of the times in which we are living and so many falling away from our congregations. I am so glad to have found sites like these that educate us as to what is happening and prepare us to be Watchmen on the walls.

  13. Cab

    I do not agree. It is talking about a real planet, Jupiter. It is talking about a real planet, Nibiru (aka The Destroyer, The Frightener, etc.). The Winged Orb is another name for it. It can be identified now in Starry Night computer program. This is talking about Nibiru having a confrontation with the Planet Jupiter. Jupiter is a star, with fusion on its surface. Nibiru — known as the firey red dragon of old — it’s iron oxide, surrounded, and its tails are said to be a million miles long, full of debris and iron. The Bible plainly says there will be a war in Heaven between God’s angels and Satan’s angels. It says that the Red Dragon’s tail will sweep down fireballs to earth.

    This is not going to be a pretty little light blinking in the night sky. This is going to be flames and firestorms and lightning and fire coming to earth. The sun will be blotted out by those huge tails of the winged orb, aka the Firey Red Dragon of Old.

    This is not some fairy tale about some mystical minor persecution of Christians in some far future date, those who missed the rapture, or whatever other fairy tales you guys are promoting, living in your fantasyland.

    This is a sky sign, a real bona fide sky sign. It’s not a dream, not a story. It’s real. Real star meets real star in the sky, and real fireballs are coming down to earth as the Bible says.

    And there is no pretrib rapture for anybody. Dream on. The Bible plainly tells us when the rapture comes — and that is at the Second COming. There is only one second coming — just one. It is at the end, at the LAST TRUMP. Not at the Rev. 12 star sign. This sign in the Heavens is not about a rapture or some mystical story of being whooshed into Petra, whatever.

    It’s about the beginning of the Great Tribulation. The Great Tribulation begins with the destruction of America. Total destruction. Read Rev. 14, and you can see that America (aka Daughter of Babylon) is destroyed before any antichrist or mark or any of that sort of thing comes around on the earth.

    The destruction of America is the precipitating event. As we speak, the USA is provoking WWIII right now — about to attack Russia, and blow up Iran and Syria, just like Daniel 8 prohesied the Evil Empire one-horned Goat would do, to fly all around the earth without touching and destroy Persia, the Ram.

    Please remember that the Bible equates sheep with the good guys — and goats with the rebellious damned. America is a land of selfish, greedy people who think they have the right to what everyone else has, and America’s destruction, total destruction, is at hand. Jeremiah says America was ‘once a golden cup in the Lord’s hand, and we would have healed her, but she would not (repent.)

    That’s what this star sign is about. It’s not about some secret rapture or being teleported to Petra or whatever other fairy tales people want to make out of it.

    • Cab

      If this had edit features I would have toned my reply down a lot. I don’t mean to disparage or accuse what I might think or guess you might be thinking this star sign means. So since I can’t edit, I will just apologize.

      But we are able to get a specific date by punching in the coordinates, and I don’t see why we should think that date does not mean those things are going to happen in the sky that it says will happen. But that’s just my opinion, and I’m sorry for being so adamant.

      Rev. 12 does say that the Great Red Dragon represents Satan, and it says Satan was cast down to earth — and “woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for he devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.”

      Revelation 12 has a lot more to it than the first 3 verses, and I surely have not figured it all out. I did not even figure out the first 3 — and it never even occurred to me that it was talking about an actual star sign in the Zodiac.

      So I think it takes better brains than mine to figure this all out — maybe lots of brains giving their insights. So I spoke hastily and in a bad spirit, and I wish I had not done that. (too bad there’s no edit feature)

      • MP

        I didn’t read a bad spirit in your comment at all Cab. This sign is certainly significant and for anyone that takes serious time to research it understands it is unique. The parallels/symmetry/connections to other events is astonishing. For me, I’m just a little wary of concluding the physical manifestation for the same reason with the rare blood moon tetrads on feast days did not bring about immediate manifestations in the physical. Likewise, much of the other stuff we have covered here that defy any explanation other than providence, we learn that many things point to a story but don’t allow us to predict. I will not be surprised if something major happens during Rev. 12 sign nor will I be surprised if nothing happens. If the latter is the case I will believe it is a countdown to something of which we will see a day count that will display God’s sovereign hand between the future event and the sign.

        • Cab

          The key word to me in the Rev. 12 scripture is the word DEVOUR. The scripture says that the Red Dragon will be waiting at the feet of the woman to DEVOUR her child (Jupiter).

          The whole scenario and description of Rev. 12 is describing a ‘fearful sight in the Heavens.’ And it further tells us that this will reach down to earth.

          This ‘thing’ is a match for Jupiter, our largest planet, which is actually a star, has fusion at its surface, as our sun. Two wandering stars in confrontation in the skies.

          Jupiter stands guard in the solar system over Earth, and all the comets that come in must go through Jupiter. Jupiter eats comets, and either spits them out into the sun or devours them into his core.

          Yet this thing, this planet, wandering star, Great Red Dragon of old, is a match for Jupiter? This ‘thing’ can DEVOUR Jupiter instead of the other way around?

          This is something to think about. And worry.

        • Cab

          I don’t know of any scripture that talks about blood moons having duals in Heaven with Nibiru. And making the sun ‘black as sackcloth’ is way more than just a regular eclipse of the sun. The blood moons are indicating something, but I don’t know what. I don’t know any coordinates to punch in to a sky canopy software that will produce a specific date like we have in the sky sign of Rev. 12. I’m not one to examine blood moons — and I see a lot of people who do talk about them, in a general way, always having to do with arbitrary dates having to do with the politics of the formation of Israel, and I don’t go near that stuff. The Bible is for believers, and believers are not Jews. Jews who are believers are known as Christians. I think Christians would be a lot farther ahead in making sense of the scriptures, as far as Christians are concerned, if we would stop trying to look at things from the point of view of the Jews, and from the point of view of the Calvinists/Preterists.

  14. Denis...rugged path

    144,000…
    Revelation 7:3-8
    12,000 from each tribe if Israel are sealed as bond servants of God. Sealed on their foreheads. That is from each tribe if Israel!
    144,000
    Revelation 14:1-5
    Standing with the Lord upon Mt. Zion, having His name and the name of the Father written on their foreheads. No one could learn the new song in heaven except this 144,000, who have been purchased (redeemed) from the earth. Chaste and undefiled with women, who follow the Lamb wherever He goes.
    Purchased as first fruits from among men to God.
    Think carefully on it. Read into the depth of the Word. Peel back another layer of the “onion skin”, and see what is being said.
    There are two groups of 144,000 being spoken of in the word.
    144,000 from Israel, and 144,000 redeemed from among men.
    I realize this flies in the face of standard interpretation, and you will castigate me and what I have just said. But, I believe what I have been taught over the years. I have no reason to doubt it.
    I used to accept the status quo in interpreting scripture, until truth began to exert itself through the rigmarole of personalities telling you this, that and any other thing.
    Truth will out. It will be known.

  15. Colin

    Cab, how do you get Jupiter as being the child? The woman is the Israel, the child is Messiah. It is a representation of the war between the Church and Satan. I dont believe in a pre-trib rapture either, but I do believe this sign is a vision of Satan wanting to devour the Church. This is exactly what happened at Yahushas birth. Satan; or rather Herod was waiting to devour the child when at the massacre of the innocent, He escaped. I believe this is a repeat of that. Satan is being thrown down from heaven to persecute the Church for one last battle, possibly the Great Tribulation is you believe that hasn’t been fulfilled. How that plays out after Sep 23, 2017, is anybodies guess. Im not sold yet on the Nibiru claims yet. Can you point me to the data I need to enter into an observatory program to see it?

    • Colin

      Jupiter is the King planet, representing the Messiah. I dont believe there will be a literal event with Jupiter. It represents the re-birth of the King of Kings.

    • Cab

      How can you say you don’t believe there will be a literal event with Jupiter? The Rev. 12 sky sign involves a sky sign, with stars, planets, and whatever you call Nibiru, The Destroyer, the Frightener, the Great Red Dragon of Old, or whatever other names this cosmic destroyer has been referred to in times gone by as it has come through our solar system and left a wake of destruction, to greater and lesser degrees, depending on when it was coming through.

      This sky sign is not a dream in John’s mind, and he is not talking about a dream that never happens, and can never be understood or made sense of. It’s a sky sign. If it were not a sky sign, then John would not call it that. He is telling us of a vision he has of a future time when the Heavens will look a certain way. It’s obviously not talking about God’s Heaven, because it has Satan in it. It’s talking about the Heaven that we can see, the sky canopy. The stars of heaven that Rev. 12:1-3 describes are the same stars that we are told in Genesis 1:14, the same ‘lights in the firmament’ that include the sun, moon and stars that ‘divide the day from the night; and let them be for ‘signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years.’

      The planets are known as ‘wandering stars.’ They do not have a permanent place in the sky canopy, but their placement can be predicted accurately, which is why they are signs, and indicate seasons, days and years.

      If we did not have the constellations, we would not be able to tell one day from the next. They are useful for navigation also.

      So God is giving us a sign here, and if we will just treat it with respect and give God the credibility He deserves, then we can predict a certain day based upon the constellation Virgo in the Zodiac, and the placement of the wandering stars that we are told will be present.

      The wandering star that is in the womb area of Virgo beginning in November 2016, to retrograde for 42 weeks and emerge on September 23, 2017, is Jupiter.
      The Bible tells us that we can expect a cosmic body it calls “Wormwood” and also “Great Red Dragon” — and are they the same cosmic bodies? Not sure on that one. But since the Zodiac tells a story anyway, and the constellations also tell a story, then the Great Red Dragon represents a cosmic body. It is not a mixture of real stars and real planets and then a metaphorical planet introduced. No, they are all planets, stars, sun and moon. Nothing is metaphorical. It’s all about the real, actual sky canopy which we are told has, as one of its purposes, to tell us “signs, seasons, days and years.”

      Jesus also told us that there would be signs in the Heavens, even ‘fearful signs in the Heavens.’

      Acts 2:19
      Verse Concepts

      ‘AND I WILL GRANT WONDERS IN THE SKY ABOVE AND SIGNS ON THE EARTH BELOW, BLOOD, AND FIRE, AND VAPOR OF SMOKE.
      Luke 21:25
      Verse Concepts

      “There will be signs in sun and moon and stars, and on the earth dismay among nations, in perplexity at the roaring of the sea and the waves,
      Genesis 1:14
      Verse Concepts

      Then God said, “Let there be lights in the expanse of the heavens to separate the day from the night, and let them be for signs and for seasons and for days and years;
      Genesis 9:12-17

      God said, “This is the sign of the covenant which I am making between Me and you and every living creature that is with you, for all successive generations; I set My bow in the cloud, and it shall be for a sign of a covenant between Me and the earth. “It shall come about, when I bring a cloud over the earth, that the bow will be seen in the cloud, and I will remember My covenant, which is between Me and you and every living creature of all flesh; and never again shall the water become a flood to destroy all flesh. “When the bow is in the cloud, then I will look upon it, to remember the everlasting covenant between God and every living creature of all flesh that is on the earth.” And God said to Noah, “This is the sign of the covenant which I have established between Me and all flesh that is on the earth.”
      Luke 21:11

      and there will be great earthquakes, and in various places plagues and famines; and there will be terrors and great signs from heaven.
      Jeremiah 10:2

      Thus says the LORD, “Do not learn the way of the nations, And do not be terrified by the signs of the heavens Although the nations are terrified by them;
      Revelation 12:1

      A great sign appeared in heaven: a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and on her head a crown of twelve stars;
      Revelation 12:3

      Then another sign appeared in heaven: and behold, a great red dragon having seven heads and ten horns, and on his heads were seven diadems.
      Joel 2:30

      “I will display wonders in the sky and on the earth, Blood, fire and columns of smoke.
      Matthew 24:30

      “And then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the SON OF MAN COMING ON THE CLOUDS OF THE SKY with power and great glory.
      Revelation 15:1

      Then I saw another sign in heaven, great and marvelous, seven angels who had seven plagues, which are the last, because in them the wrath of God is finished.

      The Rev. 12 sky sign give coordinates that tell us which planets are involved, how and where, once we punch them into a sky canopy program.

      There is no reason to consider a sky sign anything other than a sky sign. It doesn’t matter how John saw this appear to him, whether it was a dream or a metaphor or a real woman and child and dragon, or if he was seeing stars and fireballs and a confrontation between two huge planets slinging plasma bolts at each other. How John saw it and how we will see it ourselves on the date certain could be two different things. But in our case, we are not going to be dreaming of a future event. We are going to experience it, just as we will experience the rest of the events that John saw in his prophetic visions. If John saw things in a dream or a vision of what is to come, that doesn’t mean we will see it as a dream or a vision, not if we are the ones to experience the prophecy being fulfilled.

      Unfortunately, there are too many Calvinist Fatalists who believe that we are living in the Millennium now, and that the Second Coming already happened, and Revelation is irrelevant as prophecy.

      Jesus is not going to have a rebirth. That is just plain silly. History is not going to repeat over and over. The star of Bethlehem did not come with Nibiru, but this star sign does. That is the big difference. Nor did the star of Bethlehem come with fireballs and flooding.

      Revelation is more than just chapter 12:1-3. There’s a lot more prophecy in that book, but these verses provide us a specific crucial date in the timeline, and it refers to the beginning of the Great Tribulation, which corresponds also to the destruction of Babylon, aka the USA.

        • Denis...rugged path

          You are placing your scripture verse headings too far off the actual scripture. Keep them in proper place please…makes for better reading.

    • Cab

      Here is the link that explains the star sign, all four parts of it, and why it is so important and crucial. Once you understand this, it opens up the scriptures, blows away the confusion altogether. It’s only 2.5 minutes long, cut to the chase. There have been videos like this coming out on YouTube since 2013, and this is the best one I’ve seen. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OXNojarrHYk

    • Cab

      John’s vision says that the Great Red Dragon is waiting to devour the child, not the mother. And the child is Jupiter in the sky sign. Jupiter will be entering the womb area of Virgo this November and will retrograde there for 42 weeks, to emerge on September 23, 2017. The Sky Sign tells us that Nibiru, who is also known by the title Fiery Red Dragon of Old (as the CHinese have recorded his appearance in days gone by) .. that Nibiru (aka The Frightener, The Destroyer) will be waiting to devour Jupiter. This will be an actual confrontation between two stars. Jupiter is an actual star, and the surface of Jupiter is of fusion. If Nibiru (aka Great Red Dragon) hopes to devour Jupiter, that will be the most frightening sight to behold in the skies that we will ever see. And the alignment of all the wandering stars in the inner solar system, along with the sun and moon and and this other wandering star known as Nibiru — could set off a plasma stream to earth, which the Bible indicates is exactly what will happen. My read of Rev. 12:1-6, is that the tail or tails of Nibiru will flood the earth and also hurl down fireballs when it connects with earth electrically and triggers a plasma discharge.
      Here is a link to an online video documentary on Jupiter, so you can get an idea of why this event is so momentous in the history of earth, and in the timeline of the Great Tribulation: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lwtnf6m6AJI

  16. Colin

    How can you say its silly that He will be “re-born”? The whole premise of the Kingdom of God is being born again! Yashua was “birthed” first literally as the suffering servant, next He will be “birthed” as the conquering lion..Ecclesiastes 1:9 “9 The thing that hath been, it is that which shall be; and that which is done is that which shall be done: and there is no new thing under the sun.” Clearly history DOES repeat itself! I appreciate your passion in this Cab, I just dont think it points to some cataclysmic event with Jupiter. I believe Jupiter is a symbol, just as Virgo is a symbol of true Israel. Personally I think the sign is pointing to a major paradigm shift about to occur. Possibly world war, or if you believe in a “great tribulation”, possibly the beginning of that…Is it possible a planet is going to collide with Jupiter, sure, I just dont see that at this point. I have yet to see one convincing article or video regarding Nibiru. Revelation is full of allegory, symbology, metaphor, etc. When Satan is cast down from heaven, I take that in the sense that all out spiritual warfare is about to begin. Not as some planet X about to hit Jupiter.

    • Cab

      Do you think the Book of Revelation is a book of metaphors? When it says three-quarters of the people on the earth will die, that all the grass will be burned, and a third of the trees, and firey hail will rain down on the earth (Rev. 8) — that high places will become low and the low places high, the sea roaring, that the earth will be scorched, the oceans turned to blood, the rivers and streams polluted — you think this is all metaphor, and that the planets do not affect our weather on earth? You don’t think the people on Earth will see much more than an eclipse of the moon and/or sun throughout Revelation? You think Revelation 12 refers to the Second Coming of Christ, and you call it a ‘birth’ … so does that mean that Revelation 12 is talking about the end of the world? That is what the Second Coming is you know, the end of the earth as we know it.

      Do you believe this star sign is significant? Or just another pattern in the sky canopy, and given to us for no special reason as to this date or the meaning of the particular planets and stars involved. (ie Jupiter the king planet, Regulus the King Star, Venus, Mars and Mercury aligned with all of these, and then the fiery red dragon of old which will hurl a third of the stars to earth. And when the star sign says that there will be a war in the Heaven between Michael and his angels and Satan and his angels, you think this is a metaphor? And when Rev. 12:12 says “Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time….15 And the serpent cast out of his mouth water as a flood after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away of the flood. 17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

      Okay. And we have a date for all this happening — which is September 23, 2017. And you say this is no big deal?

      And this great red dragon intends to devour the child (Jupiter). Hey, this is a monster planet. These earthly events that happen are the result of planets that God has set in motion in the Heavens. They don’t come out of nowhere, and this star sign, even if it’s not talking about real planets as you claim — either way teh result is horrific for Planet Earth and its inhabitants. When the Bible says “Woe to the inhabiters of the earth,” … that means bad stuff. It’s not a metaphor, and Revelation is not a metaphor.

      Knowing this planet has come through before, and knowing that Rev. 12 is talking about real planets and stars and a real constellation, tells me it’s going to be a real encounter in the Heavens between Jupiter and this Great Red Dragon. And after listening to astrophysicists like James McCanney for a number of years I have learned about the electric universe, that our weather comes from the plasma discharge as planets move about and reconnect electrically. I recommend you catch his program on his archives on his website. Just Google James McCanney, and then scroll down to the program archive link and it will take you to that page, which has archives going back 15 years or more.

  17. Colin

    Cab, your putting words in my mouth…I never said it is insignificant. In fact Im pretty darn excited about it! I do think it means something, I just dont believe it is a collision with Jupiter or the second coming, and certainly not the pre-trib rapture rubbish. I believe it is a significant time marker, as I said a major paradigm shift both spiritually and physically is about to commence. How that happens is anyones guess. Ive read some theories about when the start of the millennium would be and next year lines up some of those timeline based on 7000 years of human history. So when I am saying “birthed” what I am saying is that it could be the end of this age and the beginning of the next. Yeshua is about to clean house!

    And yes, Revelation is filled with metaphor that points to literal fulfillment. I take a historic stance on most of Revelation. The overwhelming majority of it has been fulfilled in the last 1900+ years of Church history, namely by the Roman Empire and then the Roman Catholic Church as well as the Arabs and Muslims, with the Ottoman Empire. I believe the Vatican and the Jesuits are still running the show, though much more covertly. I also believe the papacy is where the “son of perdition” comes from as the pope has been “sitting in the temple of God declaring himself to be God” since the 6th century. The institution of the RCC is also the sea beast of Revelation…but I digress…That being said, there is still some major things that need to happened, like the fulfillment of the One World Govt. and One World Religion. The pope right now is in Jerusalem in a multi-faith, Ecumenical gathering trying to unite the 3 Abrahamic faiths. Check this out: http://www.cogwriter.com/news/prophecy/is-2016-mekudeshet-festival-leading-to-a-one-world-religion-antipope-francis/

    We are getting very close and I believe this sign is a sign for that time period. You think its a collision in the heavens, the destroyer being Nibiru, I think it is collision so to speak on Earth of global powers, physically and spiritually where Satan who is running the Vatican is about to intensify his fight against the Church. I think grand deceptions are about to take place, exponentially more than is already going on.

    I am borderline obsessed with this event. I research it daily, I play with stellarium trying to find holes in it as well as listen to other peoples interpretations, and of course pay attention to global events; economically, militarily, and Geo-politically. I dont think any one person has all of the answers and I think its healthy to have respectful discussion. As King Solomon said in Proverbs “Iron sharpens Iron.”

    • Cab

      So what you’re saying really is that the star sign is symbolic of nothing really. Just another reminder of the birth of Jesus? Nothing that is going to affect any of us at all? Just something to remind us that Jesus was born in a manger 2000 years ago? Do we need a star sign for that really? And God is going to put a star sign up there for us to remember that Herod tried to kill Jesus? Maybe we should celebrate Christmas 9/23/17?

      And what is similar about Satan coming to earth to destroy the church with Herod trying to kill Jesus?

      Also, I have explained here that the planets connect electrically and emit plasma discharge which will melt and scar. This really happens, and we are talking about real planets here, a real sun and moon and stars. Jupiter is a real planet and so is Nibiru. Nibiru has been by before, and it’s coming by again.

      You may not be familiar with plasma discharge or the effect one planet has on another just be being in proximity to it. Nibiru is pictured as a fiery dragon in the sky for a reason — because the flames and plasma and electrical bolts shooting back and forth — the sky will be flames and electricity as Nibiru seeks to devour Jupiter.

      Maybe you don’t think the entity referred to as the Great Red Dragon is a planet. We know that the child in the vision is a planet (Jupiter) — yet you think the thing representing Satan (the Great Red Dragon) is actually Satan? So you think some of the star sign consists of real planetary entities (sun, moon, stars, planets of Mars, Venus, Mercury, Jupiter, Regulus) but then other parts of the star sign are something else, an angel, literally Satan? You think Satan is going to literally try to devour Jupiter? Excuse me?

      The verse says DEVOUR. There’s no mixing of metaphors here that I can see allowable. It is what it is. It is a star sign, not a vision or dream about Baby Jesus being born. God does use the stars for signs, seasons, days and years. Surely you know the sun and moon, stars and planets affect and control our weather? Everything in the universe is connected electrically. It is a fact.

      Your position is a jumble of confusion to me. I think if you were to check out some of the Thunderbolts videos, research Electric Universe, you might get an idea of what could be happening 9/23/16.

      • Cab

        Yikes — I wrote 9/23/16 by mistake. Tried to catch it but too late. No edit features. Sorry. I meant to write 9/23/17. NOT 16.

  18. Colin

    When I said I believe Jupiter is a symbol, I meant that is is symbolic of the King being born since it is the King planet. When I said Virgo is a symbol of Israel, I meant that the actual constellation of Virgo in this literal alignment is symbolic of Israel. When the dragon is waiting to devour it, it is a reference to Satan trying to kill Yashua at His birth via King Harrod. I believe that we are about to see a similar situation where Satan is going to be “cast out of Heaven” to wage war on the Church in these last days. Does that clear up my position?

    • Anonymous

      The king being born is Jesus being accepted as Israelis messiah. The devil will try to devour or stop that from happening. But as in the valley of dry bones Israel became a nation , then began to flourish and now Gods spirit will be breathed into her as she accepts her messiah albeit thru war and conflict.

  19. Denis...rugged path

    I tried for years to get one of my more ” stuck in the mud ” friends to realize that understanding what God meant by the Stars being for signs, and our learning of it was not Astrology. That Astronomy and Astrology are two different things.
    As a joke, he bought me a copy of The Gospel in the Stars by Joseph A. Seiss.
    I thanked him so profusely, he became embarrassed and never bothered me on the subject again, but always squirmed whenever I broached the subject.
    It amazes me that some may have an unbelievable depth of understanding of scripture in some areas, yet cannot grasp the concepts in other areas.
    That some can memorise scripture while others simply breathe it, live it struggle in it, yet all are willing to give up their lives for Him.
    Are you?
    A good argument/discussion can be a lot of fun. I take pleasure in someone reading something I have written, or spoken and pointing out where I may have made a mistake. Gives me the chance to correct myself and get it right. Humbling to say the least, but the best kind. Especially when it is done out of respect and love.
    This is the God we serve, one who will admonish, and correct His children, so we may walk rightly with Him. This is our God who is worthy of our praise. This is our God who gave His life for us, and asks us to lay down ours for Him.
    Oh, Hallelujah!
    Got to stop now. Feel a preaching coming on.
    But, I don’t want to spoil the discussion any more that I already have.

  20. Denis...rugged path

    Remember…the Jupiter Effect, 1974; remember the great Rapture expectation of 1988; remember 5/5/2000; remember 2012?
    Remember all of those, when nothing occurred. Or did it?
    For many, unless there is concrete, visible evidence of something happening, there is nothing.
    The spiritual aspect is blythly overlooked or ignored, even though it is far more relevant than the physical. Can’t see it, so it doesn’t bother them. Hasn’t affected their lives, or pocket books, so it is meaningless and subject to scorn.
    But, has it affected them?
    I think so! The effects of these events was far greater than any could imagine.

    • Denis...rugged path

      When the Jupiter effect was first “proposed” in 1974, the actual passing was to take place in 1982. Earthquakes, tidal waves were expected to happen as a result of Jupiter’s proximity. Did they?
      Or were the effects more profound in the changes in the hearts and minds of men?

      • Cab

        What Jupiter effect? What does this have to do with the subject at hand?

        You are trivializing this whole subject. Why bother to post on here if you don’t understand the topic and won’t do anything to inform yourself, and want to talk about everything else instead.

        Are you guys Jewish? Calvinists? Are any of you familiar with Gill Broussard’s work? Anybody home? Anybody ever watch the 2.5 minute video I’ve posted? Helloooo????

        • Denis...rugged path

          Gee, it’s funny. I could swear you were talking about Jupiter in your posts.
          Yes, I watched the video. I am fully aware of what is happening up there as the stars and planets move. Fully aware of the significance of them as signs ordained of God for us to witness. I have no problem with what you are expounding.
          Whether I agree with everything you say or not, is my business.
          All I have done is relate that there have been similar occurrences within the span of our lifetime. Not this particular one of course, but other events which were supposed to shake our lives up.
          That this event occurs after 7,000 years is of enormous importance, and yes, could very well be the one sign which points to the return of Christ.
          But, Jesus will return when it is time, not because we think it is time.
          Just so happens I believe the time is near.
          Just because I may not entirely agree with you is not a reason to get hyper and offensive. Just remember, if you know this much, there will be someone outside your realm who knows more.
          I do not need to apologise, nor do you.
          Good grief man, I am just a simple Christian, an old man who dreams dreams. But I know how to relax and enjoy a good repartee.
          Bless you.
          ,

          • Cab

            Agree with me? You don’t have a clue what I’m talking about. How about if you watch the 2.5 minute video so at least you know what I’m talking about. I don’t even know what all other stuff you bring in has to do with anything. I am talking about the Rev. 12 star sign. Find out what that is first, and then we can talk about it.

            This forum is impossible. I’m out of here. I think maybe NASA might be sending in some shills to post up a bunch of nonsense so that nobody will catch on to what’s going on with Nibiru and this date our Bible has given us. The Bible is never, ever wrong. If the Bible gives us a date certain, one day in 7000 years, and people want to explain it away or talk about nonsense and unrelated blather, then the person who started this forum needs to introduce the topic better. We need some pictures, some videos, and a clear explanation of the topic.

            I am really disappointed with this forum. A forum for people to talk in riddles about a riddle — a riddle that has already been solved. But nobody seems to know that, or what a sky sign is, or what it might mean to us.

            The more I try to explain it and post up videos, the more insanity I get. I should have known better than to try to talk to a bunch of preterists and fatalists who think we’re living in a Millennium paradise now.

            How hard is it to watch a 2.5 minute video? Or how about checking out some of Gill Broussard’s good work online? Nobody is familiar with any of this. Just a bunch of uninformed people giving their wacko interpretations without even understanding the basic facts.

            The person who has this forum has done a really bad job setting it up and getting the topic introduced or understood. There’s no editing features, no way to introduce graphics. The format is really bad.

            If there were an editing feature I would just blip out all my postings. This is a stupid forum for people to mangle a good topic because they don’t know anything about it. Don’t know how to get informed, don’t want to get informed even if they knew how.

            I hate this format, the spacing is terrible, the font is too big, and not condusive to good communication. The posters don’t have a clue and don’t want one. Daily Crow — yeah. Just go crow, make a lot of noise about nothing. Crow away. I give up.

            Goodbye.

              • Cab

                I’m not melting down over Revelation 12. I’m melting down over your stupid forum. You really did a great job setting up this topic in such a way as to mangle it, obscure it, and make it impossible for people to communicate clearly about it. Who the heck are you anyway?

                At least you gave this stupid forum a good name — just think of a big black crow squawking, going around and grabbing up any tidbits of clear communication and swallowing it before anyone can even look at it, and then making a lot of noise about it.

                Who are you. Why are there no edit features in this stupid forum? Why is the type so big, the spacing so big?

                You should be ashamed to detour people off the cliff so they will never get the clear message about this topic. I don’t have a problem communicating, and I do know what I’m talking about, but the way you have this stupid forum set up it’s impossible. I think it’s deliberate. Why else would you name it Daily Crow.

    • Cab

      Nothing like a forum that is set up like Dick and Jane, with no editing allowed. Call it Daily Crow, and design it to turn out to be exactly like it was set up to be — a forum for children who are just learning to read.

      • Colin

        Cab, you are so busy trying to argue your point, your not actually listening to what anyone else is saying. I have said numerous times I believe it will be a repeat of history, sort of a dual fulfillment of prophecy if you will. I even posted scripture that speaks to history repeating itself from Ecclesiastes. May ask how old you are? You are throwing a tantrum because people have different interpretations of this event. NO ONE has the ultimate truth except for Yahuah! To start bashing the members of this board and accusing people of not knowing what they are talking about because they may disagree with you is just a little bit immature. And it seems by your last post, you are the one acting like a child.

  21. Colin

    Not only that, to attack the person instead of the argument is a classic logically fallacy called ad-homenim. I certainly hope for ego you are right about this.

  22. Kathleen

    We as Catholics see Rev 12 as referring to both Mary and the Church, because she has 12 stars around her head representing the apostles.

    It is the Church that gives birth through Christ of its first born sons….those who provide us Christ’s Eucharist. About the one in the Church to be taken up….it is the papacy.

    We have had a number of popes who were martyred in the past, so it is nothing new.

    But with the modern printing press, cd’s, dvd’s, we have easy access to papal teachings.

    The more we unite with Mary, the more she brings us closer to Christ.

    The woman taken by the wings of the eagle….that is contemplative prayer focused on Scripture that lifts us in the desert without sacraments to the Lord…and we will be looked after in this period of tribulation.

    Mary began to manifest herself in the 1500’s, her intercession aiding in defeating the Turks who protected us from the Islamization of Europe. This epoch of time is the Age of Mary.

    October 7 is the feast of the Holy Rosary, and October 13, 1917 is the miracle of the sun.

    We await her triumph of her Immaculate Heart. Some say it will begin when the structures of the world collapse. We stay firm in the Lord. If it was Our Lord’s…then it would be the end of the world and He would take us from here.

    But it is not.

    The Age of Mary will end with the defeat of Satan where he will be chained for a thousand years, and we will then enter into the Epoch of the Glory of the Holy Trinity, and all Christianity, Islam, and possibly Judaism will all be with One Lord.

  23. Colin

    Sorry Kathleen, but the papacy is the “son of perdition” that has been “seated in the temple of God, declaring itself to be God” from 2 Thess 2:4. The Catholic Church as an institution is the sea beast of Revelation. Im not saying that the followers are but the institution itself is. They fulfill so many prophecies regarding the anti-christ and the “man of lawlessness. Here are but a few…

    Check these pope quotes out…these are taken from http://christianitybeliefs.org/end-times-deceptions/pope-quotes-verify-they-are-antichrist-son-of-perdition/

    Popes have repeatedly claimed to be God.

    Pope Pius V blasphemed, “The Pope and God are the same, so he has all power in Heaven and earth.” (2)

    Pope Innocent III said “We may according to the fullness of our power, dispose of the law and dispense above the law. Those whom the Pope of Rome doth separate, it is not a man that separates them but God. For the Pope holdeth place on earth, not simply of a man but of the true God.” (3)

    Pope Leo XIII declared, “We hold upon this earth the place of God Almighty.” (4)

    The Popes claim the title of Vicar of Christ, which means “substitute Christ.”

    The word antichrist doesn’t just mean “against Christ“, it means “in place of Christ.”

    Pope Boniface VIII said “We declare, assert, define and pronounce to be subject to the Roman Pontiff is to every creature altogether necessary for salvation… I have the authority of the King of Kings. I am all in all, and above all, so that God Himself and I, the Vicar of Christ, have but one consistory, and I am able to do almost all that God can do. What therefore, can you make of me but God?” (5)

    Pope Pius IX said, “I alone… am the successor of the apostles, the vicar of Jesus Christ. I am the way, the truth, and the life…” (6)

    Pope Pius X declared, “The Pope is not simply the representative of Jesus Christ. On the contrary, he is Jesus Christ Himself, under the veil of the flesh. Does the Pope speak? It is Jesus Christ who is speaking, hence, when anyone speaks of the Pope, it is not necessary to examine but to obey.” (7)

    Pope Pius XII said, “…recognize the Holy, Catholic, Roman Church to be the only true Church of Jesus Christ, outside of which neither sanctity nor salvation can be found. Call them to the unity of the one fold, granting them the grace to believe every truth of our holy faith and to submit themselves to the Supreme Roman Pontiff, the Vicar of Jesus Christ on earth.” (8)

    These blasphemous Papal proclamations oppose what Jesus told us in John 14:6, “I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me.”

    Popes proclaim that Mary lived a sinless life and is the co-redeemer of salvation.

    Pope John Paul II said, “The truth of the Assumption, defined by Pius XII, is reaffirmed by the Second Vatican Council, which thus expresses the Church’s faith: “Preserved free from all guilt of original sin, the Immaculate Virgin was taken up body and soul into heavenly glory upon the completion of her earthly sojourn. She was exalted by the Lord as Queen of the Universe…For the Mother of Christ is glorified as ‘Queen of the Universe‘.” (9)

    “The Church… been accustomed to have recourse to that most ready intercessor, her Mother Mary … For as St. Irenaeus says, she ‘has become the cause of salvation for the whole human race.‘” (10)

    Pope Pius XI said, “What will it cost you, oh Mary, to hear our prayer? What will it cost you to save us? Has not Jesus placed in your hands all the treasures of His grace and mercy? You sit crowned Queen at the right hand of your son: your dominion reaches as far as the heavens and to you are subject the earth and all creatures dwelling thereon. Your dominion reaches even down into the abyss of hell, and you alone, oh Mary, save us from the hands of Satan.” (11)

    Pope Benedict XV declared, “To such extent did Mary suffer and almost die with her suffering and dying Son; to such extent did she surrender her maternal rights over her Son for: man’s salvation . . that we may rightly say she redeemed the human race together with Christ.” (12)

    “God has committed to her the treasury of all good things, in order that everyone may know that through her are obtained every hope, every grace, and all salvation. For this is his will, that we obtain everything through Mary.” (Pope Pius IX: Encycl., Ubi primum, February 2, 1849.) — [p. 12, number 12]

    “O Virgin most holy, none abounds in the knowledge of God except through thee; none, O Mother of God, obtains salvation except through thee, none receives a gift from the throne of mercy except through thee.” (Pope Leo XIII: Encycl., Adiutricem populi, September 5, 1895.) — [p. 12, no. 13]

    “If it is impossible to separate what God has united, it is also certain that you cannot find Jesus except with Mary and through Mary.” (Pope Pius X: Allocution to the Franciscans, November 12, 1910.) — [p. 14, no. 20]

    “Every day, as the Church herself recommends, priests will recite the Holy Rosary, which, by proposing for our meditation the mysteries of the Redeemer, leads us to Jesus through Mary.” (Pope Pius XII: Exhortation, Menti nostri, September 23, 1950) — [p. 14, no. 23]

    They proclaim that salvation is ONLY through the Roman Catholic Church.

    Pope Francis I said “You cannot find Jesus outside the Church.” (13)

    Pope Innocent III declares, “With our hearts we believe and with our lips we confess but one Church, not that of the heretics, but the Holy Roman Catholic and Apostolic Church, outside which we believe that no one is saved.” (14)

    Pope Boniface VIII said, “We declare, assert, define and pronounce to be subject to the Roman Pontiff is to every creature altogether necessary for salvation… I have the authority of the King of Kings. I am all in all, and above all, so that God Himself and I, the Vicar of Christ, have but one consistory, and I am able to do almost all that God can do. What therefore, can you make of me but God?” (15)

    Pope Pius IX said, “It must be held by faith that outside the Apostolic Roman Church, no one can be saved;” (16)

    Pope Clement VI said, “No man outside obedience to the Pope of Rome can ultimately be saved. All who have raised themselves against the faith of the Roman Church, and died in final impenitence have been damned, and gone down to Hell.” (17)

    Pope Leo XII said, “We profess that there is no salvation outside the (Catholic) Church. …For the Church is the pillar and ground of the truth. With reference to those words Augustine says: `If any man be outside the Church he will be excluded from the number of sons, and will not have God for Father since he has not the Church for mother.’” (18)

    Acts 4:12 confirms that salvation is only through Jesus. “Nor is there salvation in any other, for there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved.”

    Popes proclaim that Christians who are outside the Catholic Church aren’t saved.

    They proclaimed that Christians who don’t bow to the Papal Church and are martyred for proclaiming Jesus, belong to Antichrist.

    Pope Leo XIII said, “Remember and understand well that where Peter is, there is the Church; that those who refuse to associate in communion with the Chair of Peter belong to Antichrist, not to Christ. He who would separate himself from the Roman Pontiff has no further bond with Christ.” (19)

    Pope Pius XII said, “O Mary Mother of Mercy and Refuge of Sinners! We beseech thee to look with pitying eyes on poor heretics and schismatics. Do thou, who art the Seat of Wisdom, enlighten the minds wretchedly enfolded in the darkness of ignorance and sin, that they may clearly recognize the Holy, Catholic, Roman Church to be the only true Church of Jesus Christ, outside of which neither sanctity nor salvation can be found.” (20)

    Pope Pius XII said, “It is absolutely necessary that the Christian community be subject in all things to the Sovereign Pontiff if it wishes to be a part of the divinely-established society founded by our Redeemer.” (21)

    Pope Eugene IV said, “No one, let his alms giving be as great as it may, no one, even if he pour out his blood for the Name of Jesus Christ, can be saved unless they abide within the bosom and unity of the Catholic Church.” (22)

    Pope John XXIII said, “Into this fold of Jesus Christ no man may enter unless he be led by the Sovereign Pontiff and only if they be united to him can men be saved…” (23)

    Popes have repeatedly declared that Bibles are forbidden and should be burned.

    They forbid Bible reading, as it testifies to salvation by faith in Jesus Christ, not by works through the Papal Church. And it testifies that they are the Little Horn of Daniel, the Beast of Revelation, and the Pope, the Son of Perdition.

    Pope Innocent III declared, “to be reproved are those who translate into French the Gospels, the letters of Paul, the psalter, etc. They are moved by a certain love of Scripture in order to explain them clandestinely and to preach them to one another. The mysteries of the faith are not to (be) explained rashly to anyone. Usually in fact, they cannot be understood by everyone but only by those who are qualified to understand them with informed intelligence. The depth of the divine Scriptures is such that not only the illiterate and uninitiated have difficulty understanding them, but also the educated and the gifted.” (24)

    Pope Innocent III decreed, “We prohibit laymen possessing copies of the Old and New Testament. …We forbid them most severely to have the above books in the popular vernacular.” (meaning in their country’s native language, as the Papal Church only allowed their priests to read it in Latin). (25)

    Pope Pius IV said, “The Bible is not for the people; whosoever will be saved must renounce it. It is a forbidden book. Bible societies are satanic contrivances.” (26)

    Pope Leo XIII declared, “As it has been clearly shown by experience that, if the holy Bible in the vernacular is generally permitted without any distinction, more harm than utility is thereby caused.” (27)

    God had the Bible written in Hebrew and Greek, not Latin. God caused the Bible to be translated into French, German, English and other languages, so the Papal Church opposes the hand of God.

    The reason they don’t forbid Bible reading now is that God used the advent of the printing press, and Bible societies to spread Bibles all over the world, so they can’t stop it.

    Instead, they have infiltrated Bible publishers to create modern Bibles that remove words and change the meanings. Read Modern Bible Deception Verse Study

    Popes proclaimed that all the world should submit to their authority or be killed.

    Pope Innocent III said, “Anyone who attempts to construe a personal view of God which conflicts with (Catholic) church dogma must be burned without pity.” (28)

    Pope Gregory IX said, “The lords of the districts shall carefully seek out the ‘heretics’ in dwellings, hovels, and forests, and even their underground retreats shall be entirely wiped out.” – (29)

    Pope Leo XIII said, “But the supreme teacher in the Church is the Roman Pontiff. Union of minds, therefore, requires, together with a perfect accord in the one faith, complete submission and obedience of will to the Church and to the Roman Pontiff, as to God Himself.” (30)

    Historians estimate that the Roman Catholic Church caused over 50 million “heretics,” mostly Christians, to be killed during the Dark Ages and Inquisition, because they did not submit to the Papal Church. Read Killing The Two Witnesses Of Revelation 11

    But now instead of opening declaring all of the above Papal Proclamations, they work covertly to seize power over the whole world.

    Pope Francis is drawing the world to him by declaring that all ways lead to the same God.

    Pope John XXIII wanted the Catholic Church to engage in the contemporary ecumenical movement, and the “Pontifical Council for Promoting Christian Unity” was created to draw Christian Churches to the Pope.

    You’ve seen this play out as Billy Graham, Rick Warren, Rick Joyner and other “Christian” leaders have embraced the Pope.

    Friend, as you’ve seen on this study page and the other Bible studies on this website, the Papal Church is the Whore of Babylon who is drunk with the blood of the saints.

    No Christian Pastor should have anything to do with the Pope, and they should be declaring that the Papal Church is the Little Horn of Daniel, the Beast of Revelation and the Pope, the Son of Perdition.

    After he was elected, the cover of Time Magazine declared Pope Francis to be the “New World Pope“, and since his election Pope Francis has made it abundantly clear that he is going to make ecumenical outreach a top priority.

    Pope Francis is trying to draw Muslims to him, but focusing on God, the Father; and saying that Jesus is his teacher, as Muslims believe that Jesus was a good teacher, but don’t believe that He was God. The Bible says that Jesus is the Creator and the Light of the World, so the Pope’s words oppose the Bible.

    “Jesus is my teacher and my pastor, but God, the Father, Abba, is the light and the Creator. This is my Being. Do you think we are very far apart?” (31)

    Pope Francis implies that “Allah” and the God of the Bible are the same.

    “I then greet and cordially thank you all, dear friends belonging to other religious traditions; first of all the Muslims, who worship the one God, living and merciful, and call upon Him in prayer, and all of you.” (32)

    Pope Francis is drawing Jews to him.

    Pope Francis also wrote that the Catholic Church holds “the Jewish people in special regard because their covenant with God has never been revoked.” (33)

    Pope Francis will visit Israel in May, 2014

    Pope Francis is drawing the Orthodox Christian Church to him.

    Before his inaugural address, the pope had a private meeting with Ecumenical Patriarch Bartholomew from Istanbul, who attended his inaugural Mass.

    It was the first time the spiritual head of Orthodox Christians had attended a Roman pope’s inaugural Mass since the Great Schism between the western and eastern Churches in 1054 A.D.

    At Wednesday’s meeting, Francis called Bartholomew “my brother Andrew,” a reference to the apostle who was the brother of St. Peter and was the first bishop of the Church of Byzantium.

    Francis also held a private session with Metropolitan Hilarion, the foreign minister of the Russian Orthodox Church, the largest in the Orthodox world.

    In order to gather the world into the one religion of the New World Order (and away from salvation through Jesus), the Pope is drawing the major religions of Islam, Orthodox Christianity, Protestant Christian Churches, Judaism, and even atheists, to the Papal Church.

    In the name of ‘peace‘ the False Messiah will offer one religion that reconciles the differences between the major religions.

    And the enemy of ‘peace‘ and the world, will be Christians who will not bow down to the authority of the beast.

    Below is what has been declared by Vatican Councils and in their Cathachism:

    “We define that the Holy Apostolic See and the Roman Pontiff hold primacy over the whole world.” (34)

    “All names which in the Scriptures are applied to Christ, by virtue of which it is established that he is over the church, all the same names are applied to the Pope.” (35)

    “No one may possess the books of the Old and New Testaments in the Romance language (such as French, Italian, Spanish, etc.), and if anyone possesses them he must turn them over to the local bishop within eight days after the promulgation of this decree, so that they may be burned.” (36)

    “The Pope takes the place of Jesus Christ on earth…by divine right the Pope has supreme and full power in faith, in morals over each and every pastor and his flock. He is the true vicar, the head of the entire church, the father and teacher of all Christians. He is the infallible ruler, the founder of dogmas, the author of and the judge of councils; the universal ruler of truth, the arbiter of the world, the supreme judge of heaven and earth, the judge of all, being judged by no one, God himself on earth.” (37)

    “We confess that the Pope has power of changing Scripture and of adding to it, and taking from it according to his will.” (38)

    The Roman Catholic Church reveals that they worship Babylonian, Egyptian and Roman pagan gods, by the symbols and idols they use. Look at these Images of the Roman Catholic Church (new page).

    The Popes of the Roman Catholic Church consistently sought to eliminate the Two Witnesses of the Word of God and the Church of Christ.

    You can read about the historical fulfillment of The Two Witnesses of Revelation 11

    Then read Killing The Two Witnesses Of Revelation 11

    I highly recommend you looking at the history of the RCC and go from there. Blessings <

  24. Colin

    This is certainly not the age of Mary as you say and there is only one way to the Father, that is through His only begotten Son. Yashua said in John “I am the way, the truth and the life, no one comes to the Father but through me.” Salvation is not by Mary, the pope, Islam, or Judaism! The Ecumenical movement right now is right in line the One World Religion the Catholic Church is trying to bring about in these very last days to deceive the world. Revelation 18:4 “4 And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.” This is a direct command to the people following the Catholic Church and that includes the Protestants that are being led back to the Mother of Harlots. I say this in love, not condemnation. Please look at the overwhelming evidence that shows the RCC is the anti-christ beast system.

    http://romancatholicbeliefs.org/

    • Cab

      The Revelation 12 sky sign is not up to religious interpretation. It is about a planetary body known as Jupiter that will appear in the sign of Virgo along with 3 wandering stars, the moon and the sun, a combination that will happen once in 7000 years. God put that star sign there to give us a date, not to give us a riddle of events or religious doctrines to argue about.

      This forum is not about religious doctrines. It is about a star sign and the date given for that star sign. There will be an actual, real confrontation on that date between Jupiter and Nibiru (aka the Great Red Dragon of Old). As a result of that confrontation, fireballs are going to come to earth, and there will be a big eclipse, a third of the stars will be blotted out — which means eclipse time. Doesn’t matter if it’s broad daylight, and we will all see fire in the sky.

      So you people who want to argue your Calvinist of Catholic belief system — you are taking up space on Dick and Jane, See Dick run, run, run run.

      This forum is stupid. Why doesn’t the moderator fix it! People are coming here without a clue as to this star sign, that it predicts a certain date and tells us that two wandering stars are going to duke it out in the sky. Doesn’t matter what Virgo stands for. It’s irrelevant to the date and the events that will happen on that date.

      The moderator has done a terrible job of presenting this subject. The format is ridiculous. See Dick run. Run, run, run.

      Go ahead and ban me. See if I care. I might just ban myself. Getting these inane comments into my email box is causing me to lose faith in humanity.

    • Kathleen

      I was prepared for such comments and the exegesis used here is sourced coming out of 1800’s Stone Campbell movement.

      Tragic.

      The manner of interpretation in how you perceive such is not based on a Catholic’s perspective, not at all.

      The Church has had continuous documentation since its beginning at Pentecost. The Scripture is not intended to read alone with one’s bias and misinterpretation…which in turns leads to prejudice and division, and we know who is the author of dissension and division.

      The chaff will always be with the wheat, one thrown to be burned and the other that bears life.

      It is the Church who is Christ’s interpreter of Scripture. And our catechism has every doctrine with its Scriptural source as well as Councils who further define Scripture through the traditions the apostles laid down.

      You are mixing up Christ’s Church with Babylon….Eastern Syria, Iraq, and Northern Saudi Arabia and you are not understanding the role of Turkey and its great persecution against Christians — Latin and Orthodox of the universal Church with its 5 patriarchs, Rome one of them.

      So much for you to learn.

      And to seek the ‘truth’ by comprised teachers….you only find such thinking here in the USA where Catholicism is the last acceptable prejudice.

      Sorry, my understanding of the Word of God does not lead me to malign or misunderstand others, including other Christians but to truly come to understand them beyond the veil of the limitations of language and culture.

      The Church prays for our separated brethren every day and some day we will all be one.

  25. Colin

    Im not the one mixing the Church in with Babylon…they are Babylon! Constantine peganized true Christianity. I bet you have never actually looked at the Church history before? The millions upon millions of bible believing Christians that were slaughtered for reading the bible and not bowing down to the pope. I can go on and on and on…the Catholic Church worships Idols, exalts Mary to be a co-equal with Yashuah, prays to statues, changes the 10 commandments, and puts a man in the place of Elohim. You can not deny these facts! And dont give me the oh were not actually praying to the statue bit, sorry, but I have family members that are Catholic and I have been to Mass, you are absolutely bowing and praying to the statue. The Catholic Church puts tradition to be equal or greater than the Word itself, that is blasphemy! You know, the best lie is the one closest to the truth. The anti-christ is not some superhuman individual that stands outside the church, he is right there in the middle deceiving millions ever so subtlety while the people blindly follow the priest instead of actually reading the bible. Do yourself a favor and grab the KJV, do some reading and then tell me you can still reconcile what he RCC teaches with the word of Elohim.

    Cab, I dont know why you keep throwing Calvin in there…if that is directed at me, I am not a Calvinist. I am not an anything-ist …but a believer in Yashua HaMaschiach. I dont follow traditions and doctrines of men, but try to follow the word of Elohim.

  26. Marie

    Colin loved the history. Very interesting. Kathleen may the Lord give you direction. You need to look at the new testament for guidance as there is no such Mary doctrine in the scriptures. I hope you will not stop looking. Cab your comments are bringing division. To the community I suggest his comments be ignored. It is a downward spiral into quarreling. It is not healthy.

  27. Colin

    Guys, I gotta be honest with you….I’m having serious doubts about this “sign.” First and foremost, you can’t see it! I know the argument that it was meant for our technologically enabled generation to “see” it on a computer, but thats just not sitting well with me. I can’t seem to shake the feeling that when Yah gives a sign, it is to be seen, like literally look up to the stars and see it. Not having to use a man made instrument. Does He need mans “intellect” to achieve His plans? The other is Jupiter is birthed on Sep 12th, 2017 if you take the line between Spica and Arcturus as the threshold of the “womb.” The rest of the sign does not complete for 10 more days, and the verse of the garland of the 12 stars comes BEFORE the woman giving birth, not after. Before I get attacked, please consider these things. I’ve been somewhat reluctant to tell people about this lately because I dont want to be a false teacher and have people looking for this as an actual act of Elohim and it turn out to be nothing.

    • Cab

      Very good and useful comment. Much appreciated. I don’t care whatever people think about the mystical meanings of this star sign, but this I am taking serious note of. I will pass on your comments to others who are more knowledgeable in using sky canopy software. If this is a scam, I sure want to know it before I sell my house and leave the country.

      One point regarding not being able to see this star sign because of being ‘clothed with the sun.’ The sun may well be in total eclipse for most of the day — due to Nibiru’s tail (Nibiru aka The Winged Orb). Actually two tails — and full of iron oxide and debris. Gill Broussard says this is the planet that caused the strange eclipses in the past, like the 3 hour eclipse when Jesus was hanging on the cross.

      So this meeting between Nibiru (aka Winged Orb) and Jupiter will not be a minor nothing little star shining in the sky kind of star sign. The sky will be on fire, is what I would suppose. Plasma bolts will be flying between Jupiter and Nibiru and Earth. The sky sign specifically says that a third of the stars will be blotted out, so that sounds like eclipse to me, not only of the sun but of a third of the sky itself. Whew. I don’t think this is going to be a nothing day. Fearful signs in the heavens, as the Bible says.

      Jupiter eats comets. But this ‘thing’ expects to eat Jupiter instead. And the scripture says that Jupiter will ‘go up to Heaven.’ What can that mean! That Jupiter will go away? Disappear from the skies?

      This star sign has me very much alarmed. I do not write it off as a meaningless little story of Mary and the Baby Jesus. Or whatever symbols people want to attach to it. I take it as a cosmic cataclysm that is coming to the world, especially to the side of the globe where North and South America are.

      The earth is heating up, the core of the earth is getting hotter, and this is causing more volcanoes to erupt, more earthquakes, and more weather anomalies. Jesus said this would happen, Beginning of Sorrows, to end in a big Bang you might say. That Big Bank I think, I surmise, guess, whatever word you want, opine, would be the day America is destroyed utterly, and the day the Great Tribulation begins.

    • Cab

      Well, the Bible says God gave us stars for signs, seasons days and years.

      So we are talking stars here, not Baby Jesus. Baby Jesus will not be in the sky, literally. It is a ‘wonder in Heaven,’ and that means a star sign.

      It is not a wonder in somebody’s imagination, some little dream about Baby Jesus. It is a star sign. Not a riddle to solve of somebody’s dream.

      God has named all the stars. The word ‘stars’ is even used in this star sign. The 12 stars in the crown, that would be 9 stars in Leo that is always there in the crown of Virgo, and then 3 wandering stars: Mercury, Mars and Venus. 9 + 3 = 12.

      You are posting here about Jupiter not entering the womb area at the right time to complete the star sign. Now you are saying it is a sin to even discuss it.

      What is your problem? If you want to make criticism of the sky canopy software prediction of the 9/23/17 date, great. Nice to have at least one person actually discussing the purpose of this forum. But now you are claiming that if we do discuss the purpose of this forum, which is the Rev. 12 star sign date given by Stellarium when the coordinates are punched in — that this is a sin, and should not be done.

      So why are you on this forum, other than to blabber on about irrelevant things concerning your private interpretation of what Christianity is or is not, your Hebrew Roots religious views, which I doubt anybody here is interested in — and is completely off topic.

      So you did post one comment on topic, which I am tracking this down to see if you have any merit in your accusation against the date given by Stellarium for this star sign to be fulfilled. So why are you crying the blues, claiming anybody who cares about this star sign is some kind of occultic?

      Double-minded much? The people who post on this forum, deserve to have a Dick and Jane format. It is very frustrating. I am so much interested in this topic, and nobody here seems to have a clue what we’re even here talking about. Maybe the PTB are sending in shills to blabber on and cause people to give up.

      I suggest to anyone sincerely interested in this subject, that you go to Planet X News instead. There’s all kinds of forums there on this subject.

  28. Anxiously awaiting the Harpazo

    How can Rev 12 be the middle of Daniel’s 70th week and yet this sign will appear less than a year from now? Not only has the 70th week not started, but there are too many horrific events that have to happen first beginning with the sixth seal in Rev 6 leading up to the Rev 12 sign less than a year from now. I’ve gone back and forth on whether there is only 3 1/2 years left of Daniel’s 70th week, but it makes no sense and denies that a final seven year period remains along with other required twisting of scripture. I truly hope the Church is taken out before 9/23/2017. The only thing I can assume at this point is that the Rev 12 sign on 9/23/2017 is just telling the world what’s coming in the future as of some starting earlier in Revelation. I wonder if what’s described in Matt 24:29-30 is describing what “immediately” happens after the sixth seal is broken (rapture) and then everything else after the sixth seal happens in quick succession leading up to 9/23/2017. Given everything that is happening in the world, I can see all hell (ww3, Niburu, etc.) breaking loose in the next few months.

  29. Colin

    Pre-trib rapture is false. The seventieth week already happened right after the 69th week and was fulfilled during the first advent and 3.5 years later completing with the stoning of Stephen. There is a 3.5 year period of Great Tribulation as Rev 12 describes. I do agree that this is a time marker. If you look at the state of the world today and take into account the Jupiter enters the womb Nov 20, two weeks after the (s)election, its not a far stretch to say that we are about to see all hell break loose on earth. We have never been so close to a full blown war with Russia..ever! It seems to me Jupiter entering the womb represents the beginning of sorrows that will increase over the next 9.5 months while gestating in Virgo. The big question is, what happens when the sign comes into full alignment on the Feast of Trumpets next year.

    • Anxiously awaiting the Harpazo

      I don’t debate people with your view because respectfully speaking, I think it’s ridiculous. It’s like debating with someone who argues a tree falling in the forest doesn’t make a noise if no one is there to hear it.

      I assume the reason some people don’t see the pre-trib view is for the very same reason many Jews do no see Christ in the Old Testament.

  30. Anxiously awaiting the Harpazo

    Colin, I don’t mean to sound as harsh as I came off. Just tired of having to argue the rapture doctrine everytime I post a comment or question on a forum. If everyone just said they have a certain view or it’s their opinion, that would be better. Saying smoeone else’s view is false, wrong, etc., just invites similar comments in return, which I fell for. My apologies.

  31. Colin

    I didn’t take offense, no worries. I just dont believe there is any scriptural support for it and overwhelming support that the seventieth week already happened and that the second coming and the rapture are the same events.

  32. Very nice article chocked full of Biblical information! I just started a new Christian website and have included a page on the Revelation 12 Sign. One area I would respectfully disagree with you on is the Isaiah 14:12 message about a morning star. I believe this passage is referring to a false morning star, or Satan, which is represented by a crescent moon shape. The original Hebrew in Is 14:12 was sa har, derived from sa ha ro nim. The latter phrase can be found in the original Hebrew in Judges 8:21 and refers to Midionite camel jewelry shaped liked crescent moons. As you are aware, the worship of a false moon god dates at least back to Nimrod’s Babylonian empire, and was common in Arabia and other regions infiltrated later by the descendants of Ishmael, including the Midionites. The moon god began as Nanna, then sin, and morphed into today’s Allah. Yes, as you indicate in your well-done article, Jesus Christ is the true Morning Star. Satan is veiled as a false one and is incorporated into the entire Mystery Babylon pantheon. But I concur with you on the fact ‘Lucifer’ in the Latin Vulgate was a horrible translation of the 14:12 Scripture. I cringe every time I hear a Christian minister utter that name, or read a commentary mentioning ‘Lucifer’. He is a make believe personage that I don’t give much credibility to. In any event, keep up God’s work, and if you have a moment visit my site and read the article on Revelation 12. Thanks and may God bless you!
    In Christ, Eric
    P.S. I do think something amazing is going to happen on or around Sept. 23, 2017…

  33. Katherine

    I was taking pictures of the Hunter’s moon last night (10/15/16) and while showing them to my husband this morning at breakfast I noticed a round planet-type object just below the moon and to the east. It was large and didn’t shine like a star although it seemed to be picking up light from somewhere. I estimate it to be about 1/20 the size of the moon. Venus was off to the left and much smaller and brighter, so whatever it is must be between Earth and Venus. What could it be? I searched the internet but can’t find any information on it.

  34. Katherine

    Perhaps I should have said that it was below and to the right of the moon, rather than to the east. All three were in the east. Venus below and to the left. Unknown object below and to the right. Hunter’s moon stunningly full and bright in the middle. KH

    • MP

      No cowards here. You understand the authority and have a made a choice. The Most High built this house and as a steward of this property there will be no urinating on the carpet. I welcome dissenting viewpoints and will tolerate quite a bit. Comments which blaspheme The Most High will not remain on this wall. Many have made clear to you a truth which you understand clearly, that you have free will. You can deny this free will if that is how you justify siding with the losing team. This is a battle you have lost, kicking, screaming and lobbing insults does nothing. You may have authority over those who speak empty words but deny the power, here you have none.

      • Karen

        Many have made clear to you a truth which you understand clearly
        >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

        I tell; I am not told. I am the verb; not the object.
        As for you saying the battle or my cause is lost; I say the contrary.
        There are no lost causes because there are no won causes.
        The battle is eternal.
        I have transcended matter; I will transcend time…and I will prevail.

          • Karen

            Do you think transcending time and matter is supposed to impress?
            >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

            What “you think” is neither here nor there…
            See, Jehovah was right…they have an appearance of godliness about them; but deny the power therein (and that includes things beyond what is generally accepted by His Most Disloyal Opposition as well as Those on His Side).

      • Karen

        You understand the authority and have a made a choice
        >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

        The concept of “authority” is entirely illusory…it is an artificial construct w/o any foundation in nature.

        The exercise of “authority” cannot be accomplished w/o the concurrent presence of its diabolical cousin; violence or the threat of violence.

        Those who believe that they have some right to exercise “authority” are suffering from a mind rife with delusion; those who allow themselves to be subjected to “authority” suffer from a slave mentality and an equally unbalanced psyche.

        • MP

          This is the convenient position when your only authority is that which is tolerated by The One to Whom all authority belongs.
          The father of lies muddies the waters as you are doing. You can hold your breath we both know what we are talking about. No more word games. In person you would resort to parlor tricks, nothing impressive. I would exercise the authority you know I have and would be able to speak to Karen for a moment.

  35. Karen

    This is the convenient position when your only authority is that which is tolerated by The One to Whom all authority belongs.
    >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

    A usurpation

    we both know what we are talking about.
    >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

    Presume nothing…

    No more word games
    >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

    Yes; number games seem to be your long suit…at least when measured against mortal man.

    In person you would resort to parlor tricks, nothing impressive.
    >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

    Prestidigitation and legerdemain constitute magic, not MAGICK…learn to differentiate the one from the other.

    I would exercise the authority you know I have
    >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

    People believe what they want to believe and see what they are predisposed to see. You have more esoteric insights than the ordinary slob on the street…but what you actually know compared to the Extent of All Wisdom can be effectively compared to the distance between thy toes vis a vis the span of My Galaxy.

    • MP

      It all begins and ends with the Alpha and Omega. Apart from Him there is no wisdom only foolishness. The brief moment you have been waiting for will soon begin. You know what the word says and you know the verdict. You can release Karen now and find someone else through whom to spew lies or you can wait until the laborers show up.

      For the wisdom of this world is foolishness with God. For it is written, He taketh the wise in their own craftiness.

      • Karen

        I cannot help but laugh when Christians speak of the “inevitability” of their triumph….predicated on the visions of John the Revelator of Patmos.

        How the hell else are they supposed to end Their Book?

        Two testaments, penned over the course of more than 1500 years….clearly delineating every single binding rule, custom, ritual…plus draconian punishments for violations of these injunctions….along with various narratives describing both past, present, and future events….all overlaid with a tone of profound dread….as is the Way of their Humorless, Joyless, Sadistic Deity Jehovah.

        Who gathers All That and then writes on the last page, “oh, by the way, We lose at The End”.

        Lol.

        Did you ever hear of *ANY* faith that did not promulgate the inevitability of Their Triumph?

        I mean seriously, what sane person is going to give time, money, and observe the customs and rituals of a religion that declares that They Lose @ the Denouement?

        • MP

          These points work on social justice warriors in college but not here. As stated previously, we both know the truth about what we are discussing. You begged Enoch and he sought God to no avail so now you try to convince yourself you can win.

          • Karen

            As stated previously, we both know the truth about what we are discussing.
            >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

            Repetition is symptomatic of insanity. Moreover, I believe a review of that 1977 flic “The Bad News Bears in Breaking Training” (opening scene) would serve you well…

              • Karen

                You got what you came for but this is getting boring.
                >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

                A convenient out for the overmatched; though all temporal beings fall under that ambit when placed against Me.

                • MP

                  Yet again. You know this to be a falsehood, why am I surprised the father of lies. Phase 1, deflect and twist words. Phase 2, discuss the complexity of truth and how you have special knowledge that cannot be understood by mortals. Phase 3, appeal to ego.

                  This is not Eden and Calvary happened. It is finished. Your knowledge is limited and I have the same power that raised Christ from the dead within me. He holds all things together and your temporary ability to exert your will on your surroundings is because of Him. Again, you know this as well as I do so any discussion to the contrary is a facade.

                  • Karen

                    that cannot be understood by mortals.
                    >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
                    You could understand it; We tried to open your eyes, but your God frowns upon your breed receiving wisdom, “From the Tree of Knowledge Thou Shalt Not Eat”. Of course; for who is easier to control than the ignorant?

                    “To educate a man is to make him unfit to be a slave.”
                    ___Douglass

                    >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

                    discuss the complexity of truth
                    >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

                    Best line in the N.T. was uttered by Pilate:
                    “What is Truth?”
                    >>>>>>>>>>>>>

                    appeal to ego.
                    >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

                    What is so bad about an ego; about self respect? I do not mean overblown self regard…but general respect for oneself commensurate with ones accomplishments?
                    I loved Kathy Griffin’s award ceremony comments a few years back when she opined on the “role Jesus played” in her winning…finally someone with the guts to break a 6000 year dialectic.

                    >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

                    Calvary happened.
                    >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

                    And see what it wrought! Genocidal crusades, torturous inquisitions, endless war, hate for non conformists, fear, pain, terror, retardation of scientific progress, destruction of all “unapproved” literature & art, suppression of love and all things beautiful!!!

                    As Francis once said in Logan’s Run when gazing on post apocalyptic D.C., “Is this good; is this what you want?”

                    What I say, of course, has no impact upon you.

                    “Oh how difficult to free a slave from the chains which he reveres!”
                    ___Voltaire

                    >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

                    to the contrary is a facade.

                    >>>>>>>>>>>>>>

                    I remember when Mantle hit one that touched it…well over 500 foot shot.

                    • MP

                      The tree of knowledge doesn’t work here. We are speaking in degrees. Special knowledge in this world amounts to nothing in the scheme of things, just as thousands of years is no time at all. If we are going to at least attempt to be honest we can’t start with the inquisition drivel. We both know what Messiah has to say about that, the Jewish leaders of His day were an archetype. I too was once in bondage to my own freedom, now I am free indeed. You on the other hand, can continue to wave your flag of freedom so long as He permits. Doubtful this extends beyond 14 years. Karen however, will soon recognize her bondage and be freed.

                      “Hallelujah! Salvation and glory and power belong to our God,
                      for his judgments are true and just; for he has judged the great prostitute
                      who corrupted the earth with her immorality, and has avenged on her the blood of his servants.”

              • Karen

                so now you try to convince yourself you can win.
                >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

                As Charlton Heston once said whilst gazing upon the humanoids in the grove circa 3975 A.D., “If this is the best they’ve got around here, in 6 months we’ll be running this planet.”

          • Karen

            These points work on social justice warriors in college but not here.
            >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

            I guess the contemporary, middle aged American is more interested in economic justice…at least for himself…lol. Most of our financial and lending institutions take a similar view; and their crimes of usury has been duly noted by Those Above.

            Oh my, can there be any guild so vulgar as that which tradeth Truth for silver!

            But behold; for even in this unholy endeavor the ecclesiastical guild falleth short; for they obligeth not their part of the bargain with Truth; but rather with insidious lies!

      • Karen

        You can release Karen now and find someone else through whom to spew lies
        >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

        It is your people who writhe in agonizing bondage; not Mine.

        Nearing its end
        Christianity lurches
        Unable to maintain
        The lies of the churches

        As I reveal
        The unholy con
        I lift up My Cup
        And adore Babalon!

      • Karen

        The brief moment you have been waiting for will soon begin. You know what the word says and you know the verdict.
        >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

        Uncle Aleister offered sage advice to circumvent The Trap:

        “The Universe is in equilibrium; therefore He that is without it, though his force be but a feather, can overturn the Universe.
        Be not caught within that web, O child of Freedom!
        Be not entangled in the universal lie, O child of Truth!”

        The first paragraph is a corollary of Newton’s First Law of Motion. The key to infinite power is to reach the Bornless Beyond.

  36. Cab

    To the owner of this forum: You are not a good steward. We are supposed to be discussing the Rev. 12 star sign — but you allow pompous partisans to use this forum to press their particular doctrines of their religions, that have nothing to do with the topic at hand. To drive the whole discussion into the netherland.

    Now you are letting some Satanist come on here and brag that she is God, and God is Satan. Probably took too much LSD.

    You need to manage your website better. Nobody is going to come here and sort through all this garbage. The topic deserves better than this. We’re supposed to be talking about a real star sign described in the Holy Bible, an event that is predicted by computer sky canopy program to occur, beginning this November and going through to next September 23, 2017, when it will be completely fulfilled.

    This is supposed to be the topic. You let the Presbys come on here and push everybody off the board while they bombast us with their dogmas about everything unrelated to the topic.

    Now you let the atheists come on and babble their Satanic insanity, also having not one single thing to do with the topic.

    Don’t you have a way to manage this website? If not, I am going to keep these postings from entering my email box. It’s too upsetting to me to see how people are allowed to trash up the forum because I really am interested in the subject of the star sign prediction and I’d like to hear from others who have insight, but the forum has been taken over by wackos.

    Don’t you care about this forum you started? If you’re too busy to manage it, why don’t you find someone else who can take over, and see that the forum deals with the subject it was set up to discuss. It’s an insult to the topic to let it run into the ditch the way this forum has degenerated.

    • Karen

      (Snips the long and meandering diatribe of the Cabby)

      Are you Ernie Borgnine?

      I remember, when you were a prisoner in NYC with Harry Dean Stanton and Friends that song your friends would sing on stage!

      “No more Yankees!
      Strike those words from your ears!
      And there’s no more opera at The Met!

      This is Hell; this is fate
      This is your world and its great
      So rejoice from afar
      Because everyone’s
      Coming to New York!”

    • MP

      Unsubscribe from emails or start a website on the Revelation 12 sign yourself. You started in with people months back b/c you thought their theology was off base. If you cannot handle people’s thoughts then you shouldn’t read them. There are a lot of annoying people in the world and if you know the truth you are free to set them straight.

      • zahi

        Karen, what doeth mohammed unto thee!, that thou should deceive thine own soul, do thou truly knoweth the master of the temple?

        • Karen

          Zahi says:
          Karen, what doeth mohammed unto thee!
          >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

          Allah’s apostle said, “Have the Mugharibun been seen amongst you?”

          Aisha asked, “What does the Mugharibun mean?”

          He replied, “It is those in whom is a strain of Jinn.”

          • zahi

            And where doth thou goeth beyond the cycle?, doth not a fool seek favour in solace, yet from the womb have thou come forth into a desolate place, and covereth thy shame in darkness, oh day dreamer, how long shall the vision continue, yet there is one whom shall endure unto the end. For shall this place be withdrawn in time, and whom shall make peace with nothing!

    • Karen

      Zahi says:
      Nay we are born of the same, and thou knoweth the depth of abyss
      >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

      I have wandered in the witchwood…been under The Night of Pan…and taken the Black Pilgrimage.

      You are a fraud; your words drip with deceit & mockery.

  37. Kristi

    Karen,
    So you have rejected the love and grace of Jesus Christ to live in the vanity of your mind? You elect “do what thou wilt” as your motto and what you will to do is to harass Christians with mockery and arrogant jibberish? No wonder you are miserable. Karen- there is still time to repent and receive the love of God. Why do you war against your own soul? You are lonely and need friends but try to destroy any potential blessing that presents itself. If you are going to do what you will then at least choose something that brings good into your life. Logic and reason prove this at least.

    Come now, and let us reason together, saith the Lord: though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool. Isaiah 1:18
    Repent, and receive the love of God. Are you afraid he won’t forgive you? If you only knew his kindness and mercy you would fall to your knees in thankfulness and praise! I do hope and pray for you that you may find peace.

    • Anonymous

      Kristi says:
      So you have rejected the love and grace of Jesus Christ to live in the vanity of your mind?
      >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

      My relationship with God can be explained by this simple metaphor:

      You kick a friendly dog enough times; you end up with an unfriendly dog.

        • Anonymous

          The torture Christ endured; though more physically excruciating than most interludes during my lifetime…though surgical convalescences I have endured have been intensely painful…was over and done with in 24 hours.
          How can you compare the one with the other?

      • Anonymous

        The academic consensus is that Job’s torture was a matter of months…mine has not been months…nor years…but decade after decade after decade.

        My anger against Him waxes hot…

        • Kristi

          Freewill leads some to do much evil in this world, encouraged by Satan himself. Why blame God? I thought you were totally against a “love lobotomy”, which is what you suggest God should have done originally by this premise.

          Nonetheless, I hope for you that your wounds will be healed. Only the sick have need of a physician. Jesus is that Great Physician. Again, I am so very sorry for your sorrow and pain. My mom used to tell me as a child – everyday is a new day and you can start over every day. It sounds trite but it helped me through a lot.

          • Anonymous

            Freewill leads some to do much evil in this world
            >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
            There is truth in that…

            Jesus is that Great Physician.
            >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

            He’s not listed on the Obamacare website…

            I thought you were totally against a “love lobotomy”
            >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

            Not really what I said; what I hate is a rigged game and manipulation.
            “I will put it in their heart”
            “I will send forth strong delusion so that they shall believe a lie”
            “I will give them over to unclean passions”

    • Kristi

      All I can say to you Karen is think about what love looks like and find the source of it. I hope you will think on these things.. faith, hope, and love. I do hope you will find them.

  38. Anonymous

    No wonder you are miserable. Karen
    >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

    Just as He intended. I believe it was Thomas Aquinas who wrote that Christians should celebrate as the non believers are tossed into the Lake of Fire at The Second Death…and revel as the smoke of their torture rises up.
    Perhaps at that juncture in time; while you watch from above…the Emperor will finally appear naked…and you will see that the God you worship is an incomparable sadist…though He might give all the survivors a solid mindwipe…as that imagery is going to be pretty ugly and hard to forget.
    Right now, what I say to you is completely ineffectual (it makes no impact), as your faith effectively blinds you to reality…and serves to excuse all the abhorrent actions of the One you worship.
    Remember that no tyrant can ascend to power until his hideous misdeeds have been effectively rationalized and normalized in the minds of his biggest supporters.

    • Zach Lavine

      Your rhetoric is just nihilism. You are upset with the way life has treated you, and I don’t begrudge you that anger. You have my sympathy. But don’t pretend at the same time that your present rhetoric has room for things like the US founders’ ideals for a better country. I am not hearing anything productive; just resentment and pessimism. I suggest checking out what Schopenhauer has to say about “the will”; then perhaps consider whether Mr. Crowley has wisely placed his trust in that fickle force.

      • Anonymous

        You have my sympathy.
        >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

        Since it serves no tangible or utilitarian concern; I’d have it not just the same

      • Anonymous

        Your rhetoric is just nihilism
        >>>>>>>>>>>>>

        Well, I am in bad straits right now.
        Remember how I indicated that I’m in the midst of an economic, social, psychological, emotional & physical collapse all at once…

        “She can stay afloat with the first four compartments breached; but not five. From this moment on, Titanic will founder.”

        “But this ship can’t sink!”

        “She made of iron, sir. She can; and she will. It is a mathematical certainty.”

        Perhaps if I was able to rally; then my negativity might diminish.

  39. Anonymous

    I suggest checking out what Schopenhauer has to say about “the will”; then perhaps consider whether Mr. Crowley has wisely placed his trust in that fickle force.
    >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

    Solomon, who was a pretty bright fellow, noted in Ecclesiastes that ruminating too much on this stuff is not healthy and that the more one knows, the more the misery escalates…and that one will never reach some final, absolute answer.
    I think atheism might serve a healthy purpose; for it helps to remove from one’s mind the legitimate ever present horrors in the spiritual realm that surround all of us…and get on with the business of a life well lived and somewhat free of the fear & terror that goes with Knowing.
    If I had a billion dollars, I would happily give it to have never been given insight into any of this sh*t…

    • Kristi

      A simple formula:
      A prudent man foreseeth the evil, and hideth himself (in Jesus Christ); but the simple pass on, and are punished. prov 27:12
      Love and blessings!

      • Anonymous

        but the simple pass on, and are punished. prov 27:12
        >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

        Thanks Kristi. Not only have you just (indirectly) called me an idiot; but an idiot destined for eternal torment…now that really makes my day!

  40. Katherine

    One wonders why Elizabethan English is necessary to express that which would be better understood in the vernacular? Perhaps one does not wish to be understood? Or perhaps one has a penchant for obscurity and the red herring? Ah, I know! The Devil’s Advocate! How perceptive really to lay faith on the altar, when it is the only work of substance in salvation! It cannot be diminished by the individual experience, but ironically, can only be proven by the same. What a conundrum for the nonbeliever!

        • Anonymous

          Ummm! Jaws? What an exquisite description of the yawning chasm! How apropos! Edgy! Job and all that?
          >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

          I’m glad you’re enjoying it…you just can’t get this quality stuff from Twitter or Tumbler…I was entirely taken aback when the Member of Parliament said he was “getting bored” last night…I mean he’s ain’t got no rank ‘n file demon in front of him; he’s got The Grand Duchess…

    • Anonymous

      See Kathy; My Native Tongue is Enochian…but I do not avail Myself of it with any great frequency…especially when I found out that Fox and CNN don’t have closed captioning for that language.

    • Anonymous

      One wonders why Elizabethan English is necessary to express that which would be better understood in the vernacular? Perhaps one does not wish to be understood? Or perhaps one has a penchant for obscurity and the red herring?
      >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

      Nurse Ratchet: Mr. Harding, why do you think your wife cheats on you?

      Harding: Well, I can only speculate…yes…I can only speculate.

    • Anonymous

      One wonders why Elizabethan English is necessary to express that which would be better understood in the vernacular?
      >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

      Also, John Dee & Edward Kelly were old friends of the family…

  41. Katherine

    Enochian with the flavor of Elizabethan. Well, I don’t know. One can only speculate (as you say) at what point they might intersect. Agatha Christie’s tributes to the Greek tragedies? Phrygian perhaps? Resolution must be hard to come by in the land of Pan. How complicated it seems compared to simple faith required to believe in the Master of the Universe.

    • Anonymous

      Someone once deemed Me condescending; I quickly assured them that I could never sink to their level.

      Your Master is about to be supplanted; it will be unsettling and wrenching, but when all is said and done; the world will be a much better place.

      • Katherine

        I wouldn’t say condescending. Of course, I wouldn’t presume to speculate on the perch from which you make such a sweeping statement, but I shall not be undone by a mortal’s words. Surely you do not attain to more than that?

  42. Anonymous

    You and the other posters rail against Me only because you know I Am your Rightful Liege, and being slaves, you are naturally, unconsciously and instinctually frightened in My Presence. This fear confuses you, so you mistake it for repulsion and pour forth contempt.
    But the Land is greater than a thousand fathoms of poisoned, tainted rains; stronger than the infection of a million viruses; immune to the infestation of countless parasites, and so it is with Me, The Brilliant Incarnation of Hope.

    • Katherine

      Dear me! Me thinks thou protests too much! My master says, “Fear Not!”. Therefore I have no kinship with fearmongers, regardless of their self-perceived station in life.

      • Karen

        Katherine says:
        Dear me! Me thinks thou protests too much! My master says, “Fear Not!”. Therefore I have no kinship with fearmongers, regardless of their self-perceived station in life.
        >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

        Though this opinion might be unsolicited, your forays into Middle English elicit memories in Me of the critique by the hotel clerk of the Griswold’s attempts at speaking French upon arriving in Paris in “European Vacation”.

        Since I evince no fealty towards your “Master”; I most assuredly am not concerned with the thought of one of His servants.

        • Anonymous

          Bien sur! C’est drole, non? Je suis nullement affectee, (mon/ma) cher! Plus les mots, sans coeur. L’espirit ferme, n’est ce pas?

  43. Katherine

    Bien sur! C’est drole, non? Je suis nullement affectee, (mon/ma) cher! Plus les mots, sans coeur. L’espirit ferme, n’est ce pas?

    • Karen

      Katherine says:
      Bien sur! C’est drole, non? Je suis nullement affectee, (mon/ma) cher! Plus les mots, sans coeur. L’espirit ferme, n’est ce pas?
      >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

      See, this is one of the drawbacks of Google Translator…it allows people to give the naïve the impression that the bulk & depth of their erudition is far in excess of what it actually is.

  44. Katherine

    One wonders if your agenda could be set aside long enough to have an honest conversation or has your intellect solidified? You seem ready to prejudge all of those you seek to engage in conversation, just as you decided I had used Google Translation in order to meet your cynical comparison to a trivial movie I haven’t even seen, rather than to believe that I am actually bilingual. And, in the process denied to me (in your mind) the same access to literature and the beauty of language that you apparently have enjoyed. What gives? I love the flow of words and ideas, and wonder why someone who obviously loves them too would deny them to others? L’espirite ferme is not a flattering quality, (ma/mon) cher, whichever you truly are.

  45. Anonymous

    Katherine says:
    your cynical comparison to a trivial movie I haven’t even seen
    >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

    If you haven’t seen it, how you know it is trivial? It might be very profound; De Profundis type profound….

  46. Anonymous

    Kathy says:
    long enough to have an honest conversation
    >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

    Since I’ve been honest from the onset, and the noun “conversation” implies either you or me in this instance, by process of elimination I would take this as an admission that you have been engaging in prevarication during our colloquies…

  47. Anonymous

    Kathy says:
    I love the flow of words and ideas, and wonder why someone who obviously loves them too would deny them to others?
    >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

    Yes, I’ve constructed a veritable literary penitentiary from which you will find escape quite impossible…

    OMG…

  48. Anonymous

    Katherine saus:
    Mrs. Showalter is my witness! 4 years of French from a native speaker! lol You are too funny!
    >>>>>>>>>>>>>

    I phoned Mrs. Showalter (she still can’t get over the fact that the Yankees fired her husband) and she verified your prowess in multiple languages. I quote:

    “Katherine can count to three in five languages….or is it to five in three languages?”

    *End quote*

  49. One Wise Virgin

    Wow, I can’t believe I sifted through all the rubbish on this thread. Having read through most of it, I must say, Jesus must be petrified.

    • MP

      Why would the One who created all that is both seen and unseen and holds all things together be petrified of anything? The other question is why would one who identifies as a “wise virgin” play the role of the accuser.

  50. “If you read my earlier post on the Revelation 12 sign you understand that the astronomical alignment which occurs for the first and only time in all of history will take place in September of 2017.”
    “Secondly, for signs and for seasons. “Signs” is precisely what John saw in Revelation 12 and seasons do not refer to winter, spring, summer and fall but rather recurring periods of time.” These two statements contradict each other. The sign occurs on regular 2000 year or so intervals. Last time being the birth of Jesus.

    • MP

      They do not, its both. Solar and lunar cycles kept God’s calendar – the celestial clock. Signs in the heavens such as blood moon tetrads on Jewish holy days (just had 7th since Christ) or the Rev. 12 sign mark seasons of time or shifts.

      You are incorrect about every 2000 years. If you research it you will realize this. Though the birth of Christ sign is similar there are some very specific differences. Look it up.

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